WELCOME

Welcome to the 24th issue of the quarterly online newsletter supplement to "Self Portraits: The Self Family NetLetter," the Website dedicated to Self family research at http://www.selfroots.com

You are receiving this newsletter because you were kind enough to join "Self Seekers: The Self Family Association." We appreciate all of your contributions, large and small, and we hope you will continue to support our page, our surname list, and this newsletter.

...even when the weather hasn't been much fun. While summer is usually great for outdoor activities, this year has brought record-breaking heat to most parts of the world. Many areas have had heavy rain, high winds and even tornados--even Southern California! Let's hope that this autumn is a mild and uneventful one, leading to the peace and serenity of the holidays. Some of you will have family gatherings and renew ties with distant relatives and friends. We'd like you to consider renewing your membership in "Self Seekers"--the costs remain the same. Also, think about following in the footsteps of our consistent contributors, Cousin Barry and Cousin Elaine, and sending us something for this newsletter. You all come from different Self branches, and it would be so nice to chronicle some of your memories here. Have a happy time, and we'll see you in Cyberspace next year!

We are so happy to be the largest repository of Self information. With several domains, a second Webpage at RootsWeb, a surname forum and a suite of cluster pages at RootsWeb (see the link on "Self Portraits"), a Listserv, a Collaboration Surname list on the LDS "Family Search" site, well over 5,000 pages of connected and unconnected Self lines, and over 1450 valid e-mail correspondents willing to share information, we are well able to help you with your family research. We are also the Surname Resource Center (SRC) for the surnames of Self, Selfe, and Selph. We also host SelfSite at RootsWeb, an extension of Self Portraits containing our Census pages as well as state-by-state and county-by-county "loose ends," Selfs presently unconnected to any of the major branches; and Self Family Album II which presents more old Self photos. Family Record Online enumerates families presented on our Self Family of the Week page. And each time a new "Self Seekers" newsletter is released, we upload the one for the same month from the past year to our public page for all cousins to enjoy.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

We would like to have your gedcom so that we can add your information to our database. With your permission, we will also list and distribute your gedcom on request (but only with your permission). Please send us gedcoms so that we can start a library that will help others. If you've already submitted one, kindly re-send so that we will have the latest information. We would appreciate being kept informed of new family members as well as other changes.

If you haven't joined our Self Surname Mailing List yet, please subscribe. Instructions will be found on the main page of our Website. Note that we also host the Swindle, Eden, Edens, Cease, Breeze, Brezee, Bishop, Snackenberg, Snackenberger, Schneggenburger, and Salazar Surname Lists as well as listservs for Erath County, TX., King County, TX., Bossier Parish, LA., Murray County, GA., and Clay County, NC. In addition, we host the King County, TX, Murray County, GA, Union County, GA and Clay County, NC USGenWeb sites. Our four county sites join "Self Portraits" in featuring a handy search engine for locating topics discussed in previous messages posted to their corresponding listserv--please click on the button directly beneath the instructions for joining the listserv on the main page of each site.

"Wow! How did you ever find me? I haven't used that e-mail address in at least two years!"

We're going to pat ourSelfs on the back for this one. We really ARE pretty good at finding cousins and friends whose e-mail addresses have become invalid. And in this issue, we'd like to pass on our methods to you.

WHEN AN ADDRESS BECOMES INVALID

There are many reasons why an individual's e-mail address may become invalid: (1) The person may change Internet Service Providers to get better service or avoid an overload of SPAM; (2) The ISP may go out of business or merge with another company; (3) The ISP may change its name; (4) The person may move and choose a(nother) local ISP; (5) The person may buy a domain and begin to use that address; (6) the person may change their name or screen name; (7) the person may pass away suddenly, leave a job, or go out of business. These reasons probably don't cover all possible situations.

There are two major problems with the internet when it comes to these e-mail address changes. First, most people simply can't remember all of the places where they've posted information--county websites, surname websites, listservs, newsgroups, and gedcom-style sites to name a few. Therefore, it's almost impossible for them to try to correct their outdated addresses. Second, there is no major "white pages" directory for e-mail addresses on the Web. Some proprietary services such as Yahoo and AOL have directories for their own members, but no one has attempted to keep up with the zillions of changes that occur every day in Cyberspace.

STEPS TO SUCCESS

In order to find your former correspondent, first make a list of what you already know about him. Do you know where he lives, the names of his spouse and/or children, what particular interests he has, where he works? All of these details can help to locate him on the Web.

Start by searching the old address. Enter it into your favorite search engine, in quotes, just as it appears, i.e., "[email protected]." Examine each resulting page to see if you can find out more about this person. What other surname boards has he posted to? If you don't know some of his basic information, you may be able to find it this way.

You may want to search next for just the prefix, i.e., "seawolf@" to see if he's using his old screen name but with a new ISP. You may just get lucky.

Search the ISP. If a home page comes up, notice whether the Provider is still in business or if its URL now leads to another Provider's site. If there was a merger or sell-out, try searching for the old prefix and the new suffix, i.e., "[email protected]." At the very least, you should find out where the old ISP is located. You can then try other ISPs local to that area to see if your friend has simply changed to another nearby host.

The next step would be to search the name of your correspondent in as many ways as you can. Variations would be "John Self," "John W. Self," "John Wesley Self," "J. Wesley Self," etc. This example would yield many results so you may want to modify one or more of them with other personal information: "John Self" +"Kentucky"; "John Self" +"auto racing"; "John Self" +"University of Kentucky." One really good search is to follow the "plus sign" by the word "genealogy." Other good modifiers are "forum" and "message board." Look for postings made after the last date that you exchanged e-mail.

If you find nothing, it may be that the occurrence of your friend's name is too deep within the site to be picked up by a search engine. So, if you go, for instance, to a University site, don't forget to search their faculty and student directories.

When you're unable to find anything under your friend's name, you might try searching for one of their family members, or searching in combination with someone else. Examples are: "Susan Self" (daughter); "Anne P. Self" (wife); "John and Anne Self" +"Kentucky"; "John W. and Anne P. Self."

SUMMARY

This is how we locate our "Lost Cousins." We've had a really good success rate--this past spring we found individuals who had been "missing" for several years. The above steps are tips that we use to locate them. Perhaps you can think of more. If so, please share them with us and with other "Self Seekers." And don't forget to let us know if your e-mail address changes!

On Saturday, June 14, 2003, the descendants of Emery and Mary Self gathered for an annual reunion at the home of J.L. and Edna Self in the Old Piney Community of Maryville, Blount County, TN. J.L. Self, a grandson to Emery and Mary, has hosted this reunion for several years. This year the event was moved forward one week for a special reason. Cpl. Michael Anderson Carroll, son of Lovenia Self Carroll and Gale Carroll, a U.S. Marine, who served with the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force (MEF) during the war in Iraq, recently came home. The reunion was postponed one week so Michael, our family hero, could attend. Michael's unit served mostly in the An Nasiriyah area of Iraq during the war. This is approximately 200 miles SE of Baghdad and 150 miles NW of Kuwait. We are praising God for his safe return home and want to share this news. Below is a picture that was taken at the reunion of Michael and his first cousin, Christy Self Lucas, of Nashville, TN.

Note: William Emery Self (1886 - 1975) was the son of the Rev. C. C. (Cicero Carson) Self whose father, John J. Self, moved his family to Monroe County, TN from Union County, GA. He m. Feb. 17, 1912 in Monroe County, TN., Mary Nichols (1892 - 1966), daughter of Bartley Richard and Lucinda (Ledbetter) Nichols.

Contributor's Note: Interview at daughter, Pauline Sparks Home by granddaughter, Elaine Maxey--This was a question/answer forum; however every effort was made to use E.E. Self's exact words in the story form. It will be obvious that some are answers to a specific question.

I will tell you everything that I can. I had 6 brothers and 3 sisters. One of the sister's names was Lilly, Gertie, and Rosie; the boys was Ivy and Fisher and Henry and Ed and Harmon and Tommy. The oldest girl was Gertie and the oldest boy was Ivy. Tom was the baby and right before Tom was Rosie. My Dad's name was David Walker Self and my Mother's name was Delilee Elizabeth Hays. Dad always called Mama "Lolly." He called her that all the time--Lolly. I remember living in Louisiana, (this is gonna' cost ya"--laughs) the first place I recollect livin' at was what we call the old homestead. Built a log house there, and bore the well by hand. And where we made the well was Right over, you know and put flow on the sixes with spare coverin' part, it wasn't but 18 feet deep. And the old homestead was "Victoria Press." Well, it ws about 12 miles to Many (La.) We didn't live too close to Kisatchie Creek--about 20 miles from it...from Grandma's and Grandpa's house (Ed. note William B. Hays and Mary Cinderella Dixon) I remember their ole place and there was a water mill there, and old gin? You know that was pulled by water.

And we visited over to Grandma's and when we got ready to go back, the creek was up. And Papa had to start the wagon by the ground with a rope. We went back to the ole millhouse and come out on the other side of the creek. Mama and the kids walked through the millhouse and Papa had to drag the wagon across the creek. No, there wasn't no bridge there then.

There were 5 or 6 kids of us there at Grandma's. This was Grandpa, William B. Hays, that owned the mill. I don't recollect much about him, only he was a tall, slim, gray-headed, blonde/gray, gray beard down to here. Now, I seen him and Grandma way back there at Sonny's, they came over to Texas to visit us. He used to call her Grandma Hays, that is all I know. Don't know her given name--Grandma Self, I don't even know hers. Grandpa owned the mill there. That was a gin--what they called a grist mill, you know what that is, where they grind the mill, making out the corn. That water made the steam made it work--it was a water mill. I could show you one of them in the next county here in Texas, Shelby County there where they made sandals. It was a little ole town they called Louisville, I don't know how far it is from there, about 10-12 miles from Louisville. And we lived about halfway between that watermill and the town. When we came to Texas, we only left Ivy and Gertie in Louisiana. They had both married. Just like me, Papa worked by buying everything and selling everything, and mostly liked to have somebody workin' fer him. He like mules, wagon, and teams. He hauled logs, not many logs, but hauled lumber, staves, and ties. This was in La. He got along with William Baxter Hays just fine. We didn't go to visit much because you can't go much with a wagon and team.

I don't recollect ever seeing Grandpa' Self (Elias Self) and I don't remember ever seeing my Uncle Billy (Ed. note William E. Self), I heard he died out in New Mexico...he had eight boys out there. I don't know why he went to New Mexico. When he moved out there, he was greasing his wagon and he pulled a wheel off the thing and it fell on him and killed him. This was Billy Self.

I remember Uncle Flav (Ed. note Flavius Self, b. 1854), but I don't know much about him. He used to come see us when we lived there at Antioch, at Florien. I recollect what he look him, a good heavy set built man, with a light complexion. With gray mustache, no beard, he just had the mustache. He favored Papa, but he was a little bit larger than Papa. I think Papa was the baby of the family, at least I think he was. He was the runt of the family, too!

Uncle Norris (Ed. note Norris Albin Hays), I don't remember. Uncle Will (Ed. note William Warren Hays) and Uncle T.C. (Ed. note T.C. Hays), oh, sure, I remember them. I stayed with them, when Mama and them went to San Antonio in 1950.

I had an Aunt America (Ed. note America Hays Dowden), but don't remember much about her. She looked like Mama, black hair and dark complexion. No, I don't think they had Indian blood in them, but I think they had some French blood in them.

There were some Dixons that lived across the river from us--didn't know them very well. I only seen them. They lived across Spanish Lake there in Natchitoches Parish. I tell you, I didn't visit them no time never did, they came to see us. That's all!

Ivy and Gertie were married when we left Louisiana, that left Mama, Papa, me, Tommy, Harmon, Henry and Rose. We came to Texas with two ox wagons, a mule wagon and a bunch of cattle--about 30 head. I rode a cripple mule and a little horse, and we drove the cattle. We put everything we had--furniture all in one wagon. (He laughs) We could put it in one wagon. That house in La. was a log house that we lived in four or five years. You had to live there 3 years before you could prove it up--serve a deed to it. Then we sold it and went moving around. We never stayed any place too long. I went to school in Louisiana--out there--when we lived in that **** log house. It was about twomiles to school, don't remember the name of the school, but I remember the name of the school teacher, Minnie Farris. The reason I recollect her so good is she took a pencil or a stick held up to the map and showed me Louisiana and I said it looked like a boot-leg to me. (A very hearty laughter telling the story.) I recollect that very thing. I don't know if I was very good in school, I guess I was about like the balance of them. I was always good reading, but the thing I couldn't do nothing with was alphabet--gaveme trouble, but, History, geography, and drama, I could take that alright. I had my sisters and brothers went to school there in that Parish and moved up to Natchitoches Parish and I went there, about 6 years old. I started to school at 5. No, the longest I ever went to any school was down at Antioch, close to Florien. Another teacher's name was Julia Cawl. And the next one at Forest Glade in Texas, my teacher there was a tall, black ugly woman, and I mean she was just like a ball of fire. I didn't mess with her. But, uh, folks started a fight between two big ole boys, and she run in between them, and one of them hit her, he said he didn't aim to hit her--he let her have it, we took pack in the house and put water on her. They took a good whoppin' or get expelled. I was just as mean as any of 'em.

I remember going to the Baptist Church at Forest Glade close to Mexia. We first came to Shelby Co. about two years, sold all the cattle and come on west. We picked cotton down there at Horn Hill in Limestone County, Texas. Back to Louisiana, I don't remember going to any funerals when I was little. After I came to Texas, we stayed in Limestone, I think, 4 or 5 years. Papa sold that place and we went down to Kingsville in 1910. Then, Tom, Ed, Henry, Rosie, and Lilly came with us. Lilly came, too. I remember Harmon being sick a lot he had the flux...it is like diaria and your insides come out, we were in Shelby when he done that. Yes, it almost killed him, but he got over it. Papa had typhoid fever at Mexia. I was about 13. I guess that was about 1909 and he was the only one that had that there. I also had smallpox, too--just about all of us had that. Harmon was the first one to take them, and they come back to vaccinate us; and Doc Jackson said he was going to vaccinate every one but the dog. We had what they called vatloud(?)--all but Harmon and Papa. He lived through it cause it wasn't his time to die. Mama didn't nurse him, people hired a man nurse, George Park, @$2 a day and he stayed around the clock. I'll tell you, there was not much you could do for typhoid fever once it gets a hold of you, but to just wear it out. They use to cut the hair off of someone who had typhoid fever. There was a death, I think it was Lillie's husband, Johnnie Frith might have had that. She married after we moved to Mexia. He was I say 10 years older than she was. She was a teen-ager. He was a I call a "tinker"--a man that takes a little handbag full of screwdrivers and pair of pliers and works on pots, machines, stoves, and what-have-you. They would come back around to visit once in a while. He didn't live much longer than 6 or 7 months after they married. His mother lived in Greenville.

Papa bought some cemetery lots with some money left over out there by the church house, Forrest Glad Baptist Church. We ain't used it yet. The money was left over from an offering that was taken up to help with expenses when Papa had typhoid fever. Mama never got sick after everybody got sick.

When Lillie's husband died, they buried him in Greenville, where his mother lived. He died of Dropsy of the heart, do you know what that is--well, water gets on your heart and your arms, your legs swells up and it wears your heart out. And Lillie died about 5 years later with the same thing. Lillie came back to the house, until we moved to Kingsville. We went there, and she married again to Red Smith. She didn't stay with him a week. She met him working at the railroad shop and she was working at a boarding house, waiting tables there for a woman. She met him and married him, and she ran him off! She came back home. Tommy, Ed, Henry, Harmon, Lillie, and Rose were still there. Rose married Frenchie, a Frenchman that worked for the railroad there, later.

Everyone one of us had danview(?) fever, kinda' like it--you just kill it, you can't get rid of it unless you take a little medicine. Consumption was TB, not what we had. None of the family had it (TB) as far as I can remember.

Well, Lillie married first (Ed. note--Ivy and Gertie are already married), Rosie married and then me. Rosie first married a pumpkin head. I'll tell you who he was--Lloyd Roegel from Alice, this poor fellow? (He laughs.) She went over there and then they fought all the time and they moved back to Kingsville. They lived up in Town and we lived kinda' out on all that land. We lived on a bigger place than that. I don't know when Papa got that, I was up in Burkburnette when he got that place or how he come by it. But, where Mama and him lived He bought--uh--some of Mama's kinfolks give her that 59 or 69 acres. And Papa borrowed $1500 to put in a combination with (not understandable). It was a doctor, some of the Hays. Didn't know who he was. I was in Burkburnette because I was working for the oil field. Let's see, I was about--well, it was right after the war was over--WWI. I stayed up there two cold winters. Then when Mama and me got married, we went up there. Fisher, my brother, was up there. I guess you want to know what he done for a living--he was a gambler. Yes, Sir! He was overseas with 60th Infantry and the whole company got killed except him and 65 officers. He was in France or Germany--WWI. Henry was over there, too. He stayed down Panama after the war and when he came back, he worked for the railroad a couple of months. He never did stay at home anymore. I wasn't staying with Fisher in Burkenburnette. I stayed first one place, then another. My cousin was the contractors--him and D.A. Williams. My cousin's name was Kendall Ellsey. I worked for them some there. I saw Fisher every time I went to his gamblin' joint. I only went there when someone would send me up there for something.

Fisher was about 30 something years old. He was married to Mabel (Ed. note Mabel Hamblin). They had a little boy named Bruce. Fisher said it was his boy. Fisher's son, Bruce, stayed with me and Mama there when we lived in Iowa Park and they brought the little boy over for a little while. They come back and got him later. Fisher made a lot of money, but he got into trouble once in a while. Well, all I know is Fisher was pretty hot tempered, and I think that this other guy came out and jumped on him and Fisher got the best of him. But, he shot Fisher 5 times, and he lived over it. And then he went down to Arkansas and they got into trouble again, and I don't know what happen, a boy told me that was there that Fisher would have got the other guy and his 45 automatic jammed and it wouldn't shoot. I was in Corsicana at that time in Tucker Town. I was here and it was the same man that shot him 5 times. Mabel died with locked bowels. She died before Fisher did. I don't know what happened to Bruce--he stayed down there with Grandma and Grandpa (David and Elizabeth Self) a while and they had a little black bulldog named Killer. Fisher came to get him.

I started to be in the War. (laughs) I still belong to it! I spent about 7 years in the National Guard and they called us all up in the service. The next day, the Armistice was signed and the President of the United States told us to go home and forget about it! I'll call the President's Name in just a minute--there you are, it was Woodrow Wilson. I was already in camp, sworn in and in camp for 3 days. I never have been in Rangers or another war, I don't believe in that stuff. Oh yea!! I was in the night raiders, when I was about 15. That was in Kingsville when we had bandit trouble. We just ride around the town on horses and looked for the Mexicans to come along. There were a lot of Mexicans around here that were good...those Mexicans in Mexico don't like 'em. They call them "Tejanos." Called those people who lived here. No, there weren't any stagecoaches; but there were wagons, mules, wasn't no cars hardly. There was a passenger train. I worked on that railroad, too. A train that run up and down that border. I worked in a machine shop one day and I got fired (laughs). I light a cigarette and wasn't suppose to. Well, he fired me that ole man did, but it wouldn't stick. He called into the office and asked me what happened. And I told him. It was 6:00 and the whistle blowed and I turned around and walked outside and started to light a cigarette before I got out. I didn't know about the rules. I was about 18 then. That was B and M Railroad, there were street cars in Mexico and Houston, but not down there (in Kingsville.) You know what we got in Mexico--three little mules on a track. Them three little goats would ring them bells when they moved. (laughs) I would go to Mexico every once-in-a-while. Sometime Harmon would go with me and sometime, he wouldn't. I would go to the bullfights. I thought I would like it, but I didn't after I seen what they did and how they did it!

Well, I've always been a cowboy--always liked cattle, and Papa and me had a bunch down in Laughford (Lawford?), we bought some more, and kind of got by, and we bought a six hundred acre pasture up there, close to Grandma Waller's place, about 30 miles to Robstown. And so, I went off to San Diego for a stayed couple of days and I come back and the cows were all gone. (Some of them, anyway.) One of the cows was cripple and some were bogged down in the mud (in the tank) and had to drag 'em out with a horse. So, Mama (Sallie Elizabeth Waller) lived down the road about three miles from there, and I lost one cow, and I couldn't find it. I went down there to see the pump? Grandma Waller had a 1200-acre pasture there. Went down there to rope that durned cow, so then they were having a party down there, and Mrs. Beck had a house on that 600 acres, they give them free board to let them live there. They sold their place over there. And I went down and met her (Sallie Waller/Self) at the dance at Grandma Waller's. Grandpa Waller didn't live there, he left them and went to work on a windmill and never come back. He died up in Nursery, up at Victoria. I met all of the boys and all of them. No, Mama didn't play her guitar that night. I don't think anybody played an instrument that night. I think they had two Mexicans. Maybe, John Waller, one of her brothers could play the fiddle. Maybe he did (with the Mexicans).

I went right on back to Burkburnette and went to work. It was two years before I saw her again, well, I saw her every year. Mama's brothers and sisters were just a bunch of people. Some of them were old, Uncle John was about 45 then and William, he lived out in Oregon. Yea, William left home when he was 18 years old and he was mad. When he left nobody ever saw him again. I never did see him. He never called, but he wrote to Mama and them. He did call on our 50th anniversary. Mama had 11 brothers and sisters--there were 12. There was Ida, Robert, Henry, Claude, and Mama. Maude married a Millpower. She was already married and gone. I don't think she was a twin, but I don't know. Nobody else was living there but Grandma Waller and all them kids. No, I never knew any Madrays, she died before I met the family. Grandma Waller was just a poor ole gray-headed woman, little ole thing. She was just about the size of Mama. She was short. Grandma was real friendly, I only know a little bit about what I seen about the Wrights. I liked 'em all right. They were rich people, the Wrights were and Aunt Mary Wright trustee of the school around there. She was Uncle Milus' wife. I knew her and Uncle Milus. I like Uncle Milus, they were all nice to me. And Eddie and Lee and another one, over at Premont. Oh, Cullen Wright and Cotton yea, I knew him, too--until he died. I never had no trouble with him. After we first married, we lived in Iowa Park. We got our marriage license at Kingsville. Iowa Park is about 12 miles out of Wichita Falls, where I had a job in the oilfield. We lived there twice. We had a cafe right there close to the depot, Mama ran that and I worked out at Camp Eddie? Our first child was Percy, we had been married in Dec. 1919, and he was born in 1921, in April (March 30). Mama went down to stay with her Mama's in Robstown and I stayed in Wichita and worked. After Percy was born, she stayed with her Mama until I come back. I would come back and stay a week, 4 or 5 days, or so. I didn't do nothing but work in the oil field and drive a truck. Working mechanics! My first job in the oil field was over in Hull, Texas, got $4.75 a day for steady a 4-inch pipeline in the mud with 3-yoke oxen or 4-yoke oxen. A big long slide, loaded it up with pipeline, me and an ole boy at the other end we take a stick and stick in that pipe lay that pipeline down and go up on the service at the end of the line. Yea, I was young. I wasn't too young to do that, I was 20 years old. I was 22 years old when I married Mama. I rode a horse in my first job in that railroad shop, butI just stayed one day (about 15). But then I was making 17 1/2 cents an hour, not enough to worry about. I got a job--a storm blew the top of that place where I smoked, and I got $2.25 for putting the top on it. Then, I went to work on a riptack. I help build boxcars. That was about 1917. Me and Tom hopped trains after Mama and me married. We went out there and didn't work a day. You know the only job I was offered in California $35 a month to work in the movies. I didn't want such a job as that. I left Tom and another boy out there down in the valley close to the river.

And I came on back to Oklahoma, got me another job oilfield. I left Mama in Corsicana. This was after Robstown. Helen was born in West Columbia. I stayed there about 4 years...worked about 11 years in the oilfields. At West Columbia, I bought me a little house there. It was just a little ole house I bought for $250 two rooms. Mama cooked inside the house, no fireplace. That is where Pauline and Kitty were born. We were there a pretty good while 4 or 5 years. I was in the oilfields there, too. I went to work and came home at nights. After Corsicana, we moved to Beaumont and had all our stuff shipped out to Beaumont, went out there and got me a job at Spindle Top. And I come back and Mama said she wasn't going to live in that neighborhood, all foreigners, and she just wasn't going to stay there. I told her all right, that just suited me, we would just quit the @3#* oil field. That is just what I done. I went over there and had our stuff sent to Kingsville. I didn't know if I had a job down there or not. I knew I couldn't! See, when you gotta raise children, you gotta keep 'em in school. We went to Placedo, we moved from George West in '28. We went from Beaumont and had all the kids, but Chink. We went to Kingsville and (my) Mama (Self) had a little ole Mexican shack out there and we lived in that. I borrowed $50 from Mama (Self) and bought me a Model T Ford truck and down to Hebbronville and went I worked out there about a week and a half. Come payday, I didn't have no pay coming, I didn't get any money because of that @3* truck. (This is going to cost you pistols--talking to interviewer.) I went over to Kingsville and borrowed $15 from Harmon, and came back over and told George Bennett, I said, George, I gotta' have a way to win some money...I have $15.00 here and you put $15.00 with it and I'll bank the game. And I'll split it with you. It was a crap game...shootin' dice. Right out there on the ground with. You know how much money I won that night? I won $450 the next morning and I sold the body off the truck and put a box up there and went home on it (a hearty laugh) but I had some money. I went to Mama with a half of a truck. Yea, I come on back and Grandma never said nothin (even though I was gone all night). See, if I wanted to go somewhere I'll tell her and that's the way it goes. What I did then, was taking that paid woman over at Hallsville for about a dollar. And I knew that man that run the Ford garage there. He had an ole truck body out there. That he hauled tractors on it, didn't do nothin' but haul tractors. So, I went over there and asked him about buying that ole body. He said, "Self, if you want that ole body, you just back up here and get it. You can have it." That was just good. So, I went over the blacksmith shop, me and Uncle Bob put some clamps on it and fixed it up there. An ole man ran a work yard there.

And I asked him what he would give me to haul him some wood. He said he would give $2 a cord. So, I helped him saw it up and sell it. I went down there and found a man that had 75 cords, so would sell, so I bought that 75 cords of wood for 6 bits a cord, and I said, Mr. Thompson, how much will you give me for some wood. He said, "I will give you $4.50 a cord if you put it right there." I said okay.

I had 75 cords I'd brang him. Me and Cortez hauled all that. We hauled every bit of that--made two or three trips a day. I still had that one truck...

They went to concrete the streets there, and you know they dug the streets down and throw that on the sides. I went and ask the old boss man out there for a job, and he said no, I can't give you no job. I have to give it to the homeboys. I told him, I was raised here. He said, but you ain't been here in a good while. I said, no, I know that, but, all right. But Ole Man Shaw, was City Commissioner, and I went and talked to him about a job. He said he didn't know. I said, how 'bout me hauling that dirt off for you there, it has to be moved. He asked me well, what I would charge to move it. I said, 48 cents a yard anywheres in town. He said all right, you have a job. So, he said, you can sell any of it now that you can. So, the next week I sold an old man $450 worth of dirt. So I loaned Tommie $45 and he bought him a truck. A nigger took up the notes on it. His truck was a whole lot better than mine, his was nearly new. That's how I started in the second business. Tom and me made it all right, but he and Dessie drank all the time and wasted the money. They lived in Taylor at that time. Me and Mama, Ida and Otto, were up there were there, too. Chink was only 2 years old. I built a house on that 50 acres at Robstown I got that from Mama (Ed. note, Sallie, his wife). Her mother had died and they had divided the land, a long time before Grandma (Madray) died.  zzzzz

I was going to tell about a shipwreck. I don't know how I got int it, but I know how I got out of it. (Laughs!) I was over there at Beaumont, and I went out to ole Captain, working on a tugboat that hauled oil in the water. And I got a job from him. He got to drinkin' and he told me to stay with me and take me down to the boat at 7:00. So, I took him down there and they were so drunk and they wouldn't let him work, wouldn't let him go out. And the captain that owned the outfit went out there and we loaded two barges, pulled two barges behind one of them little things. There were 4 men on each one of them. There was me, the Captain, engineer, and a deck hand on that tugboat. We lost the bridle came off one of those things, one of them barges. About 4 o'clock in the morning and we were about 75 miles out in the water. We circled around until daylight and we got them and went on in to Galveston, found two more Captains that were going to Mexico (with the oil). I bout froze pulling in that towline rope and we got down to Galveston, and ate breakfast. They hired two more captains and we pulled out, started out got our barges hooked up and started out. That doggone engineer come running up the stairs calling me, saying come down the stairs right quick this durn thing is a fire. I said you better come on out there yourself and let's close it up down there. There was too much smoke down there. There was 250 barrels of fuel down under there. They had been drunk all night, maybe two or three days, I don't know. We had life preservers, but they were up in under the deck and we couldn't get to them. So, we headed to the jetties, the rocks. And he run aground about 50 yards from the rocks. There wasn't anything to do, but jump overboard and swim to the rocks. I was the last one, me and the captain jumped off the boat together and all four of us made it to shore. We hadn't been there five minutes 'til that durned thing blowed up and set that whole country of water on fire about three miles to town. I barely made it off. No, it didn't wear me out to swim that far. I was young, still in my teens, before I married Mama, a long time ago. Went on down and the Coast Guard took us uptown to a sailor's home and they give me a little ole blue jumper and a little white hat you see them sailors wear, they give me one of them. And then, Captain said, come on, let's go on over to the saloon, and we went to the saloon and they paid me off (in Galveston). He gave me ten dollars and asked me if I wanted to go back with him. I told him, no. I had enough. I went up there and got me a room. Boy, I was sick! No, I didn't have pneumonia, but I sure was wet headed?! I stayed there a week on that ten dollars. Then, I went and got me a job at the ship yard in Galveston and worked there for two weeks at $2.50 a day--I was painting rivets--bolts about as big as your thumb. I'd color them and that boy would catch it in that bucket and rivet up that ship. I worked there for two weeks. That son-of-a-gun, we were all suppose to be there at 7:00 A.M., and at 6:30 that thing fell off the dock and if he had been there we would have all drownded. I was suppose to be on that ship at 7:00. It just turned over this way, don't know why, but it did. No storm, just turned over. Suppose to go across the channel in a boat (ferry) to go to the island on one side of the channel. The shipyard was over there. I got me a job out of Ft. Crockett pass Galveston, and put some 11-inch cannons in the building. Yes sir, that sea wall was being built. I worked there, too. I wore a pair of hip boots and waded out in that water up over your knees and had a air hose and I would blow a hole in there and a man would come along with pylon driver and drive a pylon in there. That was my job there. They were just beginning it. I got $2.50 a day.

The only thing I recollect about the Galveston hurricane is that I got a little pair of red shoes out of it! Well, that is when we lived in Homestead (La.) and I was a little kid, 4 years old. Them shoes was in the flood, and they got wet, and about to run. The place had to get rid of 'em pretty quick. Grandma bought me a pair of knickerbockers pants a little later. I just recollect the 1901 storm--it was a bad one, too. There was another one in 1919 and that came in Corpus, but I was in Burkburnett. We weren't even married then. That was in the Spring, we didn't get married until December. I didn't know much about that hurricane.

Well, I don't know much about the Mexican/American War; but they run ole Pancho Vallo back across there until he got in the mountains, and then they lost him. I never met Pancho Vallo. I heard but the whole family talking him. Now, I could talk Mexican 'bout as good as a Mexican can. He was a bandito, a bandit. No, none of the Americans made friends with him. He was botherin' the United States he was bothering ole Capillo Diaz, ole Capillo Diaz was a bandit there in Mexico.

He was trying to drive them Mexicans out; they will try anything. Vallo lived in Mexico, not in the United States. Well, I had a couple of ole Mexicans working for me there at Robstown, and the immigration officers came over there and took 'em off. He told me he wasn't going to keep 'em, he was just going to take 'em down to the house and let them show him some papers. What he done, the ole Vallo, he lived in Liberty when the war broke out, so he went back to Mexico. Then, he come back. No, he never bothered anybody and me.

Well, they had two hundred thousand soldiers over there and from Brownsville to Rio Grande City...strung out all along there, McAllen, Mission, Mercedes, and all. About the fashion, when I met Mama, she wore a dress that come about to the knee. She never wore any of them short dresses. Not any of them mini-skirts.

I met her a little after World War I. Mama was not a nurse and none of her sisters were. (In Aunt Lily's photo book, she had several pictures of nurses. I thought that they might have been Grandmother.) I'll tell you about that proposition on that. You see, there weren't many nurses--very few! And now when we went to Kingsville, there wasn't no hospital there. No jailhouse. No courthouse. Only thing that was there was that big school in the school in the state. Henrietta High. (Henrietta High School?) (Was Mama a teacher?) No, but she was an extra down there at Riverside, where she went to school.

She liked to ride horses, yea--boy! Lily (Self) rode in Rodeos, but Mama never did. (Did she ride sidesaddle?) Mama wore a riding skirt and that is what she wore. A riding skirt was a split skirt so they could ride a horse and that is the way she rode a horse. She liked to ride 'em. Well, we owned a dozen and they were hers if she wanted them. We also had milk cows. (He laughs heartily.) The only name I remember is ole Baca. That's cow. Dogs? If I couldn't have a home of my own and not have dogs, I'd burn it up! I always had dogs and I loved 'em.

Mama had a car when she died. The first car we had, we had a old Dodge in Corsicana about 1924. It didn't have no top. You see, you put it up and down. That's a curtain car. It had two seats...it was a good ole car. You know how much we give fer that car--$30.00. And then I let it go and bought a little ole Chevrolet Roadster, I was there in Corsicana. No, we never had the truck and the car, not that one. I had a doggone Pontiac and then I went and bought a business car that belonged to Consolidated Truck Line and belonged to both of us. (Tell me about a wreck in a car.) Did Mama tell you where it was? (no) Well I tell you it was between Ennis and Corsicana. Right out of Corsicana about 12 miles where this doggone (riverstile) goes acrossed it. Turn it and it come lose and went down in that ditch, and you couldn't turn. I don't know how in the heck I ever got it out of there, but I got under there and tied it with a piece of wire. And I spun out of there and drove it on home. It didn't turn over, but it just liked to. No, I wasn't going fast, I had just crossed the bridge. I don't know what we were doing up at Ennis, but we were just scoutin' around, I guess. Percy and Helen were in the front seat with us.

The first time I ever heard Grandmother play a guitar, I don't know when, but she could play it alright. Well, she played a little bit. I don't think any of her brothers or sisters played and I don't think her mother did either. I don't know if she had one when we got married, but she had two or three of them after we got married. (There was a plane crash near your land, where was that?) That was at Seguin.Uncle Chick was the only kid at home. Me and him had just come in from work. No, we had been working at the Airfield out there. Well, see, I lived out there at Seguin and Otto and Aunt Ida (Waller) they thought they were going to separate, and he was going to turn the place back, and I took the place and put the dough up for him and put my cattle out there. I had 60 head of cattle; he was taking care of them, you see. He came to town one day and told me, Ed, you will have to do something with your cattle and I said, "Don't do that!" (This was Ida, Mama's sister's husband.) He was going to Houston and get him a job. And he told me he would just give me the place if I would just take up the notes on it. And I told him to just go on back home, and I'll be out there Friday evening, and I'll make some kind of trade with ya. That's what we were doing out there. It was about 1942, year of the war. I worked at Kelly Field there in World War II and in both the wars, I worked there in '46 and then I quit and was gone off for 7 years; I went back on May 15, 1952. I worked there tell May 15, 1965 uh 62 to the day, when I retired. We lived to San Antonio and little longer and we went to Arkansas, Texas.

No, not Texas, but Arkansas! We got down there and Mama didn't like that at all! We stayed a couple of days and it took us two or three days to get back out of there. (laughs) And then we come back and got over there and me and Mama were drivin' long there close to Leggett and I seen an old guy sittin' out on the porch with his feet propped up high like that, and (laughs hard) and I just pulled off the side and I said I'm going up there and see how that guy makes a livin'. Talked to him and found out he made a livin' sponging off of somebody else. Old Rascal! So, I asked him was there any house around here that I could rent, I reckon and he said, yea, one right out there. It belongs to the storeman right up there in little ole town.

So, I just went up there and it was $8 a month. I'm trying to think about the name of it. It was Leggett. That's the town. And then I traded my pickup for a log truck and give $600.00 to move it. Worked there for a lumber company for a while and then I bought three big horses, gave $100 a round for 'em. And I bought timber and sold it for $50 a pound to a mill and that old rascal, I let him use one of my horses to use and didn't charge him a nickel for it, and he had a nigger driving it, and he laid off. You know he told that nigger not to work for me. (How come?) He didn't want him to. So, I had that nigger to come out there and work for me and load logs for us. He told me, I can't do that for you. I said why not? He said, Mr. Bannus said not to work for you. He didn't want me to because you would get all those logs hauled out. So, I didn't say nothing until Saturday and went into the mill and got my pay, so, Old B. got his pay. I told him he was gonna have to get him another horse. I told him I loaned him my horse, trying to help you and you told that nigger not to work for me. So, the millman wanted me to keep on letting him use him. I told him, NO. I'll sell him to you if you want to use him. I don't need him, but the same time I'm not gonna let him wok for a man that will do me like that.

Editors' note: No effort has been made to edit or correct anything in this interview. We regret any grammatical conventions or any words that our readers may find offensive--but this is exactly what was related by a Self whose times were quite different from ours. We know you'll agree that he led a very colorful life.

If you've been following our "Self Family of the Week" feature, you know that all the entries we've presented have been connected to "Olde" Robert Selfe, either with definite proof (rare) or by "best evidence" (just about everyone). Although there have been many theories as to who was the son of whom, we've accepted--at least for now--the beliefs most commonly expressed by our cousins. There are, however, several large Self lines--as well as miniscule fragments--that don't seem to fit exactly into the puzzle. Sometimes we can almost see their relationship to the others, but it's an elusive vision and never quite meets the standards for inclusion in our "big document."

You may have wondered when we're going to present your Self branch online. Well, we're not sure that this will happen in our lifetime. There are many, many Selfs in our "big document" which spans 16 large files so far--we're only on the first file, and we plan to follow all of them until we reach living individuals whom we will not put on the Web. So this month we'd like to at least mention something about the other major Self lines in the United States and what indication of their ancestry we might have, if any.

JOHN AND BAXTER SELF

John and Baxter Self came out of nowhere and involved themSelfs in the emigration of the McIntosh Creek Indians in 1827-28 in IT. They obviously felt extremely close to the Creek people because they had married sisters--Baxter married Susannah Berryhill about 1819 and on Nov. 9, 1820, John wed Catherine T. Berryhill--both daughters of John and Elizabeth (Derrisaw) Berryhill. Elizabeth Derrisaw is said to have been a full-blooded Creek Indian. These two families of 8 and 9 children, respectively, left Georgia for Sabine Parish, Louisiana and finally moved into Texas. All but one family member were eventually given land grants and citizenship in "Indian Territory," now Oklahoma. One well-known descendant of this line was [William] Thomas Gilcrease (1890-1962), son of Martha Ann (Self) Gilcrease, grandson of Samuel C. Self, and great-grandson of John Self. One of 14 children from a poor family, Thomas Gilcrease's grant happened to contain an abundance of underground oil, and he became a wealthy man, interested in many things but primarily in collecting art. Today you can visit the Gilcrease Museum in Tulsa, Oklahoma. You can read more about Thomas Gilcrease in Self Revelations.

There are some who believe that John and Baxter Self were the sons of William N. and Mary Self of England. We have never yet seen proof that William N. Self even existed let alone had two sons named John and Baxter. Another cousin lists their parents as Ben and Florence Self, also probably of England. Our argument is this: there were apparently some Self individuals did come from England in the 1600s, slightly after Olde Robert arrived in Virginia. They settled in the West Indies, and as far as we know left no descendants. The majority of Selfs who came directly from England did so in the latter half of the 19th century. We'd be interested in any proof of the parentage of these two brothers since these facts plus the name "Baxter"--which is repeated in another Southern Self line--indicates that they are also descended from Old Robert Selfe.

DANIEL SELF

Born about 1785 in Culpepper County, VA. Daniel Self was probably related to William Self of Adair County, KY. He m. (1) Jan. 3, 1807 in Roane County,TN., Ann Robinson; (2) Feb. 6, 1831 in Adair County, KY., Mary Childress, b. 1799 in Culpepper County, VA and d. Nov. 29, 1885.

We're pretty sure that Daniel is the son of Presley Self, but we don't know which Presley Self this might be. Daniel may have had a sister named Mary who m. Thomas Crawley, also in Adair County, KY.

NANCY (SELF) FOSHEE

Nancy Self was born 1822 in Selma, Dallas County, AL. She m. Eldred Foshee, b. 1817 in SC., a Primitive Baptist Minister, son of Nathaniel Foshee. The family was in Warren, Tyler County, TX in 1850. The Foshee children were: Mary Elizabeth (1832); James Nathaniel (1839-1902); Martha (1842); William Riley (1844-1887); John W. (1848-1920); Francis Marion (1850-1913); Catherine; and Lucy (1868-1960). We have no idea who her parents are.

THOMAS SELF

Thomas Self is one of the most perplexing of the early Self individuals. While we know a great deal about him during and after his service in the Revolutionary War, we have been unable to find out anything about his first 16 years. To make it more difficult, there is another Thomas Self in the area who was born about the same time and who is often confused with him. One researcher believes that the lack of documentation is because Thomas Self was born in one of the "burned counties" of Virginia. Another cousin has assigned him to Francis and Elizabeth (Gravat) Self, but if that were true, he would have been born several years before their marriage. While it was no more unusual for couples in those days to marry partway through a pregnancy than it is now, a child born a few years before marriage would be highly unusual.

Born 1758, Thomas Self died Mar. 13, 1836 in Russell County, VA. Thomas Self served as a private in a regiment of the Virginia Line and began receiving a pension in 1831. He was in the battles at Chesterfield and Camden. He lived in Pittsylvania County and briefly in North Carolina before settling in Russell County, VA. He m. Dec. 10, 1779 in Amelia County, VA., Sarah Onesiphorus ("Oney") Ham, born about 1762 and died Sept. 9, 1850 in Russell County, VA. The names of their children are not typical Self names and give no clue to Thomas's parentage: Burwell (1785-after 1850); Elzenia ("Seany") (1795-1875); and James Mastin (1795-1844). Elzenia and James were not twins, so they were either born at opposite ends of the year or one of the dates is inaccurate.

We will entertain any good theory about Thomas Self, but so far, every declaration that associates him with another known Thomas can be disproved.

JOB SELF (MISSOURI LINE)

Job Self was born in 1760. He married (probably) Mary Jones and had children: Fountain (1794-1857); Joshua (1798-1880); Samuel (1800-1854); John (1803-1889); and Matilda (1810). He was the progenitor of many well-known Selfs associated with Crawford, Morgan, and Texas Counties, Missouri--and other locations. It has been suggested by one cousin that Job was the son of Phillip Self, grandson of Stephen Self, and great-grandson of Olde Robert Selfe. This conceptualization fits nicely, but there isn't one shred of evidence that it is or is not true. From our extensive research, we would say that it's probably close. Certain given names were handed down in some Self lines but never found in others, at least until the mid-19th century when fancy overtook conventional family naming patterns. We would tentatively conclude that all "Jobs" were descended from Stephen Self, but what the exact succession is has not yet been conclusively determined.

LACKEY SELF

Lackey William (or William Lackey) Self was born before 1780, possibly in Missouri, and was in AR before 1830. He is associated mostly with Pike County, AR. He had six children: Forgus (somewhere around 1810); Lewis (about 1815); David S. (1815); William Daniel (1823); Nancy (1828); and Samuel (about 1830). All the names except "Forgus" are fairly common ones for the time and don't give much indication as to Lackey Self's lineage. The name "Forgus" appears in no other Self line at any time. Forgus himSelf had a son named Vincent which could show a relationship to some other Self families. It is said that Lackey Self arrived in AR by way of Tennessee--and there is some suggestion that he is the son or brother of Willis Self of Williamson County, TN. Willis Self did have a son listed as "Locky W." with no dates, and we are not exactly sure when Willis was born, either.

LEVI SELF

The Levi line seems to me to hold the key to the origin of many of these other major, unconnected lines. Levi was born before 1787 in NC, most likely in Montgomery County. He is associated with SC, TN, and even IL, and seems to be closely related to Nathan[iel] Self and [John] Spencer Self. We have some suspicion that he is somehow very, very close to our own line since Francis Self was also "of Montgomery County, NC." Many descendants of this family lived in Newton County, AR. Our notes state that Levi was "Possibly brother of Spencer (1774), Elijah (1786), Hezekiah (1788), Nathan (1794) The first child might be Susan Self who m. June 9, 1825 in Clay County, IL., Jeremiah Daniel." According to these notes, he married first about 1800 in VA to Nancy, maiden name unknown. She must have died almost immediately afterward. His second marriage was to Sarah Felton. The third marriage, to Elizabeth Thrash, was recorded on July 21, 1824 in White County, IL. The couple moved on to Newton County, AR. There seems to have been a fourth marriage, also, this time to Mary Hodge, a woman much younger than himself. Were these marriages all involving just one man?

NATHAN SELF

Nathan or Nathaniel Self, born about 1791 in Montgomery County, NC., was probably the brother of Levi Self and almost certainly brother to our own ancestor, Francis Self. Some of the given names of his children, such as Isaac, Pleasant, and Spencer, indicate this close relationship. Isaac and Pleasant suggest the Isaac Self family of Rhea County, TN/Jefferson County, AL while Spencer hints of Levi and the Presley Self line. GENEPOOL, an online resource, gives Nathan's father as John Self while we are more convinced that he was the son of one of the Presleys. Nathan m. Oct. 1, 1816 in Rutherford County, TN., Ursula Burleson. His son, David, may have been named after his father-in-law.

WILLIAM SELF (MARYLAND LINE)

William Self was born about 1770 in VA and went to MD after 1807. He m. 1797, Dorcas Vaughn, b. 1772 in MD. The family lived in Poolesville, MD. He may be another child of John and Ann (Veatch) Self. Descendants went to Hocking County, OH.

WILLIAM ISAAC SELF

There's a lot of confusion about William Isaac Self--or should we say, the TWO William Isaac Selfs, father and son--with children being assigned to the wrong one in several sources. The first William Isaac Self was born about 1755 in Prince Edward County, VA and died about 1820 in Hancock County,MS. He m. Jan. 21, 1795 in Bedford County, VA., Dicey Vaughn, b. about 1775 in Bedford County, VA. He was in Oglethorpe County, GA in 1807. He appears to have either had two brothers or three sons by a previous marriage: Joseph (about 1790); Elijah (1780-1892[sic]), and Jacob E. (possibly about 1783). Dicey, William Isaac Jr. (1796) and Elias (1815) were apparently his children by Dicey Vaughn. There are many theories about this family, and most give some variation on the above conclusions. Their descendants settled mostly in Louisiana, although quite a few lived in Mississippi. In Louisiana, they seem to have lived first in Washington Parish and then raised large families in Sabine Parish. It may be pure coincidence that Sabine Parish was also home to some of the John and Baxter Self children. Elijah and Jacob are names that run in the Stephen Self line, as well as Isaac, this Self's middle name.

JAMES SELF (OHIO LINE)

Said to be the son of William Self--but not WHICH William Self--James Self was born May 23, 1806 in Westmoreland County, VA. He died Apr. 3, 1881 in Pickaway County, OH. He m. in Westmoreland County, VA on Dec. 19, 1925, Maria Elmore of Maryland. The given names of their children suggest ties to several lines, but those may be coincidental: Ellen (bef 1831); James (1831); Mary L. (1833); John William (1834-1917); Edward (1836), this name found in the line of Kentucky Selfs; Emily (1840); Maria (1842); Stephen Albert (1845), this name carried down in Virginia and West Virginia; Laban (1850); and Lemuel (reminiscent of the John Self line in NC). Only the oldest child, Ellen, married in Virginia, but she and her husband, Moses Gifford, soon joined her siblings in Ohio.

REBECCA (SELF) OWNBY

Rebecca Self was born sometime in the first quarter of the 18th century, probably in Virginia. She married Thomas Ownby [Owenby] (1728-1798) and had at least three children: Walter (a name found only in the Stephen Self line); Betsy; and Willoughby (another name from the Stephen Self descendants). By the time Walter had children, it becomes impossible to tell if they are named for Selfs or for Ownbys or even for Penningtons (Walter's wife's maiden name). The names "Rebecca" and "Walter" are not carried on. We don't know what happened to Betsy and Willoughby, but if we did, we might have some additional clues as to Rebecca's ancestry. The descendants of this couple moved from Virginia into North Carolina and then Tennessee, a fairly typical Self pattern.

PRESLEY SELF

Born about 1740 in Virginia and dead before 1800, Presley Self was the founder of a large Self dynasty. Of his three known children, we have information on Presley, Jr. (1763-1855) and Daniel [Pressley] (1780-1855). Jesse (1783) has no descendants in our records.

The families of Presley and Daniel Pressley were colorful and notable ones. Presley Self is being researched by many cousins. He married about 1780 in TN., Amy (or Amelia or Annie) Gunter who may have been the daughter of Chief John Gunter, a Cherokee trader. Supposedly there were two John Gunters, and some sources say that Amy's father was the Chief while others disagree. The association that Presley has with SC, TN, and AL is also suggestive of the Stephen Self line as are the names Francis, Isaac, Spencer, and Jesse. Presley's son, John, founded the Marion County, AL line of Selfs, another popular branch of research. Son Francis raised 14 children in Calhoun County, AL though Francis had first attempted to settle in Tennessee. Presley's daughter, Catherine, married D. Perry Tunnell and was matriarch of a large family. Spencer moved all around--SC, AL, MS, TN, and AR. His wife, Frances Brown, has a namesake living today. Finally, daughter Elizabeth married Asa Skelton and lived in Alabama.

Daniel Pressley Self's family also had some notable members. His son, John Drury Self, left Edgefield County, SC for Wilkes County, GA. He had 17 children by his two wives, Louisa (Grimsley) Self and Leah (Watson) Self. Daughter Dicey married Levi Fulmer and had at least two sons, Ezra Ansel and Daniel Pressley Fulmer. Lucinda Self married Jefferson Sturkey and had 10 children--we know about the descendants of 4 of them, and three died young. Daniel Pressley Self, Jr. married Hilda [or Hulda] Virginia Jennings, and his family line remains in South Carolina today. They are associated with Hilton Head, SC and are known benefactors to many good causes.

Although we show our ancestor, Francis Self of Montgomery County, NC, to be the direct son of the first Job, it may be that he is the son or grandson of the first Presley Self. In fact, this seems more likely as time goes by.

HENRY SELF (ALABAMA LINE)

Henry Self is yet another ancestor that we would love to connect to "Olde" Robert Selfe. He was born on Apr. 5, 1786, place unknown. He was with Levi Self in Roane County, TN., and his children by wife Elizabeth Allen have names that are associated with the Levi line, the Nathan[iel] Line, and the Presley Self line--William Nathan, Jesse, Hezekiah... Henry's children moved to Blount County, AL--but son Allen Richard was born in Bledsoe County, TN., as was Presley Self, Jr. above. William Nathan Self's son, John L. Self, had, in turn, a son named Arkha A. Self who was the Mayor of Hanceville, AL in the late 19th century.

ROBERT SELF (GEORGIA AND MISSOURI LINES)

We don't know where Robert Self was born, but he married in Prince Edward County, VA., the same place that William Isaac Self came from. After his marriage to Martha ("Patsy") Walker on Oct. 7, 1805, he moved his family to Buckingham County, VA and then back into Prince Edward. There were at least three sons born of this union: Daniel (1808-1874), Joseph (1806), and Ephraim--the first two names suggestive of the Presley Self family. There is no further record of Ephraim Self. Joseph Self married Sarah Gauldin in Prince Edward County, removed to Bath County, KY, and finally went into Missouri. Daniel Self married Sarah Garrett and eventually went to Meriwether County, GA., near the general area where Isaac Self and his brother, Jethro Self settled. This is an interesting family because, with just two known sons who had children, each one moved quite far apart from the other. Modern-day Georgia descendants are often surprised that they have cousins in Missouri, and those from the Missouri line are also amazed that they have close cousins in Georgia.

JOHN SELF (GEORGIA LINE)

Some researchers say that John Self married Nora O'Brian. Others give his wife as Tabitha ("Toby") O'Neal. Children are listed as Jethro, Mary, Susanna, Isaac, and Betsy, all born in the first decade of the 19th century. There is, however, no evidence to date that these were John Self's children--and nothing is known for sure except that Isaac and Jethro Self were brothers. Both of them lived in Upson County, GA.

STEPHEN SELF (WEST VIRGINIA LINE)

Born 1811 in VA., Stephen Self m. 1835 in Hardy County, VA., Catherine Blackwell. His second wife was Mary Kimble. By the time Stephen's children were grown, they had become residents of Hardy County, WV without even having to move [part of Virginia broke away to form a new state]. These children were: William Harrison (1836-1905), Lorenzo (1838-1861), Mahala I. (1840-1909), John Washington (1844-1925), Margaret E. (1846), and David Samuel (1950-1918)--not a whole lot of clues in those given names. It's possible that this family may be related to that of Fleet Self who had a son named Stephen Fleet Self, b. in 1815 in Northumberland County, VA. But that's just a guess--all there is to go on there is the name "Stephen." The same holds true for the argument that this Stephen is the son of Stephen and Ann Self, Stephen the father being the son of Stephen Self, Jr. and grandson of Olde Robert Selfe's son, Stephen. Some gedcoms we've seen have Stephen Self coming from Ireland, but as we've mentioned in a previous newsletter, people seem to want to have some more "exotic" lineage than "plain old Anglo"--they often claim to be of Irish, Scottish, or Native American extraction. But although you'll find that your Self ancestor may trace back to one of these ethnic groups, it will invariably begin with a female who married into the Self family at some point. As we saw above, for instance, descendants of John and Baxter Self were admitted to Indian Territory because these Self ancestors had married two sisters who were half-Cherokee on their mother's side. So we feel confident that this Stephen Self really is a descendant of Olde Robert Self--how so remains a mystery.

JOB SELF (LOUISIANA LINE)

We're in unfamiliar territory here. It has been suggested that Stephen Self, son of Stephen, was the father of a son, possibly named Job, as well as Stephen III who had 6 known children. Two sons of this hypothetical man would be Job Self (born about 1790 in GA) and Egbert Self (born 1808 in SC). It's a neat and convenient conjecture, but there is no proof that any such person existed. It is, however, almost a given that Job and Egbert were brothers. Job Self married Tamer Stringfellow, and there is also some controversy about her true identity. One of his sons was named Egbert, and it doesn't seem like a coincidence since that name appears nowhere else in the Self family until much later in the century. Egbert married Martha ("Patsy") Foshee. Martha's age is close enough to that of Eldred Foshee that they could have been brother and sister, and Rebecca (Self) Foshee (above) could be a sibling of Job and Egbert. The names "Job," "Nathaniel," and "Elijah" hints of the Stephen Self line once again. Both brothers ended up in and around Vernon Parish, LA.

JOHN SELF (NORTH CAROLINA LINE)

John Self, born Feb. 26, 1777 in Lincoln County, NC., died Feb. 28, 1857 in Cleveland County, NC. He married about 1798, Sarah Saunders. Speculation has it that John was the son of William, grandson of Job, great grandson of Stephen, and great-great grandson of Olde Robert Selfe; however, there is absolutely no evidence that William Self ever existed. Because so many lines seem to emanate from Job, son of Stephen, a lot of guesswork has gone into piecing Job's children together, and it would be a surprise to us if more than one or two actually turned out to be correct. Regardless of who his father may have been, John Self seems to have had several siblings. One was Elizabeth, b. about 1770, who married David Hager, also of Lincoln County, NC. William Self, a possible brother, was born in 1767 in VA and married two of his three wives in Lincoln County. Ruth, born about 1790 in Lincoln County, NC., married Willis Bradley. Elijah Self who m. Mary Bumgarner is a pure guess because he was associated with Rutherford County and not Lincoln County. The same goes for Sarah Self who married Aaron Cook--she lived her life in Orange County, NC.

For a long time we thought that there was a really concrete connection between this John Self and the family of our Francis Self despite the different locations in North Carolina. This is because John Self had a son named Berryman H. Self (1813-1841) as did his son, Lemuel Saunders Self whose son with the same name lived from 1836 to 1862. William Self, son of our Job, Tim's 4th great grandfather, born and married in NC and moving eventually to Union County, GA., also had a son named Berryman H. Self, born in 1836. This theory seemed to fit, especially with the connection to Lincoln County. It may still turn out to be valid, but in the meantime, we found that the real Berryman Hicks had been a traveling preacher, well-known to many Self ancestors in the South. Consequently, the name was more in his honor than for a namesake who was also a close relation. It was apparently as common in some circles as "George Washington" or "Francis Marion."

JESSE SELF

Jesse Self was born about 1782 in Granville County, NC. He died Dec. 9, 1868 in Catoosa County, GA. In between he had great similarities to the known children of Francis Self, our own ancestor as well as to other Selfs who are possibly all tied in together. Jesse Self was a name that ran through several Self lines. For now, we have him listed as the child of Francis Self, but he may not have been. He married his first wife, Mary Narramore, in Bledsoe County, TN (Henry Self and Presley Self, above, had associations with that location). He owned land in Alabama but never lived there. He came to Habersham County, GA at the same time as the acknowledged children of Francis Self--Celia (Self) Collins, Sarah (Self) Daniel, and Job Self. There is nothing in the names of his children to specifically indicate a close relationship, though. He did have a son named Francis, but that was a very common name among the early Selfs. Jesse Self's descendants moved into Walker County, GA and eventually into Scott County, AR.

SUMMARY

There are quite a few unconnected Self lines in the United States. We've presented the major ones above, chosen for their relatively early beginnings and the amount of descendants they left behind. There are many others as well, but these are the lines we assign people to when we can trace their ancestry back at least to the early 1800s. Time may prove that they are all related. It may also prove that some of the related or presumably related lines are not placed where they should be. We'd be interested in any information, evidence, theories, or speculation you have on these lines--and we'd like to publish your thoughts in future issues. If we all work together, we just might come up with a real roadmap to our Self ancestry.

Maybe your ancestors used to tell stories about life in the "old days," stories you remember hearing as a child. Please tell us about them. We will even supply editing and formatting; but we'd all love to know about daily life in the Self families of old--and you may be able to help. Please contact us. And please state that your story is specifically for the newsletter.

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