October 2004 Self Seekers Newsletter

SELF SEEKERS:

THE SELF FAMILY ASSOCIATION QUARTERLY ONLINE NEWSLETTER SUPPLEMENT

Editors
Tim W. Seawolf Self
Barbara Ann Peck
[email protected]
Volume 7, no. 4 October, 2004
======================================================================= =======================================================================

WELCOME

Welcome to the 28th issue of the quarterly online newsletter supplement to "Self Portraits: The Self Family NetLetter," the Website dedicated to Self family research at http://www.selfroots.com

You are receiving this newsletter because you were kind enough to join "Self Seekers: The Self Family Association." We appreciate all of your contributions, large and small, and we hope you will continue to support our page, our surname list, and this newsletter.

=======================================================================

FALL COMES AGAIN!

Fall is our favorite time of the year! The best part--to us, anyway--is leaving behind the hectic, action-packed summer days when everyone goes their own way and embracing the cool weather when we're drawn back into the warmth of our families. The upcoming holidays are family-oriented, too, with an emphasis on appreciation of those we love. Hopefully, you will want to include us among your friends and visit our sites as well as subscribing to "Self Seekers." Our cousins are the nicest people we know, and we're glad you're family!

=======================================================================

We are so happy to be the largest repository of Self information. With several domains, a second Webpage at RootsWeb, a surname forum and a suite of cluster pages at RootsWeb (see the link on "Self Portraits"), a Listserv, a Collaboration Surname list on the LDS "Family Search" site, well over 5,000 pages of connected and unconnected Self lines, and over 1600 valid e-mail correspondents willing to share information, we are well able to help you with your family research. We are also the Surname Resource Center (SRC) for the surnames of Self, Selfe, and Selph. We also host SelfSite at RootsWeb, an extension of Self Portraits containing our Census pages as well as state-by-state and county-by-county "loose ends," Selfs presently unconnected to any of the major branches; and Self Family Album II which presents more old Self photos. Family Record Online enumerates families presented on our Self Family of the Week page. And each time a new "Self Seekers" newsletter is released, we upload the one for the same month from the past year to our public page for all cousins to enjoy.

=======================================================================

ANNOUNCEMENTS

We would like to have your gedcom so that we can add your information to our database. With your permission, we will also list and distribute your gedcom on request (but only with your permission). Please send us gedcoms so that we can start a library that will help others. If you've already submitted one, kindly re-send so that we will have the latest information. We would appreciate being kept informed of new family members as well as other changes.

If you haven't joined our Self Surname Mailing List yet, please subscribe. Instructions will be found on the main page of our Website. Note that we also host the Swindle, Eden, Edens, Cease, Breeze, Brezee, Bishop, Outred, Salazar, Snackenberg, Snackenberger, Schneggenburger, and Varian Surname Lists as well as listservs for Erath County, TX., King County, TX., Bossier Parish, LA., Murray County, GA., and Clay County, NC. In addition, we host the King County, TX, Murray County, GA, Union County, GA and Clay County, NC USGenWeb sites and the Murray and Union Counties, GA sites on the New GAGenWeb, affiliated with AHGP and granted space through the kindness of USGenNet. Our four county sites join "Self Portraits" in featuring a handy search engine for locating topics discussed in previous messages posted to their corresponding listserv--please click on the button directly beneath the instructions for joining the listserv on the main page of each site.

You've noticed by now that we've moved our "Self Seekers" newsletter to the RootsWeb "Free Pages" Server. We've decided to keep all our secondary sites in one place--it makes it much easier to keep track of the files. The new URL is http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~selffam/SelfSeek/index.htm. Please add it to your Bookmarks and Favorites.

===================================================================

SELF SEEKERS MEMBERSHIP FEES

If you haven't made your 2004 contribution yet, please do so now...and re-join us for the 2005 year, too!!

===================================================================

TAKING SIDES
by Barbara Peck and Tim Seawolf-Self

This article is about the GAGenWeb. You may not have any ancestors that lived in Georgia, but then, Georgia is not the only state to be affected, and others will surely follow.

BRIEF HISTORY

One of the best known genealogical resources on the Internet is the USGenWeb Project. Begun in 1996 with a single state, the Kentucky Comprehensive Genealogy Database proved so successful that a national project was launched. The basic structure is hierarchical--the United States is divided into its various states which are in turn divided into counties. On the other end is the WorldGenWeb of which the USGenWeb is a part. The entire project is run by volunteers. Our "payment" comes in the form of satisfaction when we're able to help other researchers by giving them a place to begin their quest.

This project seems ideal: with the exception of about five or six requirements--such as placing the state logo on the main page or providing a way to post queries--each county coordinator is free to develop their site in their own way. The national and state bylaws are a bit more complicated--and always evolving. But they mirror the bylaws of most organizations today regarding membership, voting privileges, elections and appointments, etc.

So what is there that could go wrong? The simple answer is: People Happen. And people have very different ideas, not just about what is right for their county, but about what is right for the project on all its levels.

THE SPLIT

Since the beginning of the USGenWeb Project, there have been a number of volunteers who have split off and formed their own groups. These groups are projects in their own right, and are not affiliated with USGenWeb in any way. Primarily, their founders were anxious to present their sites in an atmosphere of relaxed rules (if any) and no political infighting. More recent coordinators have a variety of reasons for joining these newer groups. One is, of course, the same desire for freedom of expression that the founders had. Another is possibly the fact that USGenWeb coordinators tend to keep their counties for a very long time--there is little turnover, a long waiting list, and little hope of getting exactly the county you want. Two notable and successful examples of these younger groups are the American Local History Network (ALHN) at http://www.alhn.org and the American History & Genealogy Project (AHGP) at http://www.ahgp.org.

The ALHN was founded in 1999; the AHGP in 2000. Both groups have a free and open structure. Although there are "leaders" responsible for keeping the main project pages running smoothly, anyone can join at any time, and you can still have a county or sub-project even if someone else has chosen the same one. About the only hard and fast rules are (1) no commercial advertising and (2) no arguing or fighting on the projects' listservs.

SO WHAT HAPPENED?

In short, the culprits were politics and personalities. People in the Georgia Project had differing viewpoints, and each thought that if they were in charge, they could do a better job of things. The "bones of contention" over rules, bylaws, archiving, linking, etc. became more important than the bones of their ancestors. So one group broke away from the other, left the USGenWeb, and began a new project affiliated with AHGP. But how bad is this? How unusual?

Not very unusual at all. Considering the sheer size of the USGenWeb--the number of people involved--it's amazing that things aren't far worse than they are. For the most part, we get along very well. And not so bad from a volunteer's point of view. We're really getting up to speed in the breakway project--and in both groups, the infighting is now minimal. There will always be abrasive personalities and strong opinions, but--for now anyway--the volunteers seem to happier than they've ever been.

The split is also beneficial to visitors--in the long run, at least. When things settle down, when accusations stop flying, and when reorganized pages are all picked up by the major search engines, researchers will have at least two places to go to find help and data. In the short term, though, there's been a great deal of confusion. Some volunteers pulled their entire pages off one project and plunked them down in the other. Some others quit both projects in disgust. And some, like us, decided to forget taking sides and apply for "dual citizenship."

STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD

We agonized for several days over the decision: should we stay with the USGenWeb or go with the AHGP group? The politics were of no consequence to us--what we really disliked (and still do) are the hurtful things said by those on both sides to those on the other. We have many friends in each project, and we can sympathize with both points of view. We didn't feel that a feud should separate us from even one friend--and so we did what seemed best at the time: we joined both groups.

This may seem the lazy person's way out, but it was a lot of work. First of all, our counties in the USGenWeb's GAGenWeb were all set up, easily findable on the Web, and aided by some wonderful contributors and constant visitors. While some who broke away simply took their entire counties with them--or just left them on the RootsWeb servers and changed their logos--we decided to create brand new pages for their UsGenNet hosted counterparts. Now, we leave it to contributors to specify that their material goes to one project page or the other--or both.

Next came the explanations. It took a lot of diplomacy to let our friends in both groups know that we support them and respect their points of view--even though we are also collaborating with people they have chosen to cut out of their lives. To give credit to everyone, they were all understanding and never tried to coerce us in any way to take sides.

Maybe the most difficult task now is maintaining good relations--walking that find line in the middle-of-the-road--especially when a friend in one group criticizes a friend in the other. And, realistically, we don't see the two groups remaining trouble-free, either. New volunteers, new sub-projects, and new issues will eventually generate differences of opinion, disagreements, arguments, and even flaming. In fact, there are already a few disgruntled people--it's just human nature.

THE IMPLICATIONS FOR GENEALOGICAL RESEARCHERS

All of the above makes for an interesting story. But what are the implications for researchers who care only about finding their ancestors and filling out the branches of their family trees?

Possibly this whole experience has taught us that you should never burn your bridges behind you. You never know who might have that crucial piece of information you're looking for. For example, we host three counties in North Georgia--two are in both projects. We do the required things: post queries and surnames, collect as much data as we can, work on transcribing censuses and other documents. But because we are the largest Self repository in Cyberspace, we know a lot of incidental things about the Selfs who lived in our counties. This information is not on our sites. But if someone writes who happens to be a close cousin, we can exceed the mandatory knowledge of Selfs and allied surnames in Fannin, Murray, and Union. It would be defeating the purpose of the Web and genealogical collaboration if we couldn't help someone because they also visited the pages of some other group.

We've also learned that people will be people. And genealogy is definitely about people. There have been many feuds in the Self family and other family lines. In some cases, those disagreements resulted in lost contact that has separated relatives for generations. So even if we don't get along with a family member, we shouldn't lose touch with him or his descendants. We've worked too hard to find our families to lose them again. No argument, no criminal or socially unacceptable incident, no inexplicable dislike or personality conflict should keep family apart. Remember that even the most bitter of disputes will be of little importance a hundred years from now.

SUMMARY

We all need to realize that our success in genealogical research comes from working together. The Internet has enabled us to do just that. We no longer have to wait for snail mail--we have e-mail, listservs, message boards, and even instant messaging. We don't have to travel long distances to view documents. We don't even have to sit for hours cranking microfilm until our arms are sore. What we need to do is to take advantage of the best resources available--other researchers. Share with others--be nice to others--and, unlike those of us in the GAGenWeb projects, you won't feel as if you have to "take sides." Every side will be yours!

(NEXT: "SINGING WHEELS")

===================================================================

OBITUARY
contributed by Cousin Barry

KIRKLAND, CREED EARL SELF, 83, of Vonore, Tennessee, went home to be with the Lord and her beloved husband, John “Beece” Kirkland, Monday morning, August 9, 2004 at her home. Preceded in death by her son, John “Earl” Kirkland; parents, George Washington and Vandoria Roberts Self; sisters and brothers-in-law- Bessie and Boyd Kirkland, Easter and Ed Dupes; brothers and sister-in-law- John Self, Gus and Georgia Self. She was of the Baptist faith.

Survivors:
Daughters & son-in-law--Barbara Strickland--Nema & Roger Underwood, Sr.
Grandchildren and spouses--Teresa and John Crowden--Angie and Andy Willix--Nema Dale Moses--Roger “Junior” and Becky Underwood--Donald Underwood, all of Vonore, TN; Cindy Kirkland, Maryville, TN
Great grandchildren--Jonathan, Elizabeth & Aprille Crowden--Autumn and Sarah Moses--Cory and Carrie Underwood--Jessica Willix, all of Vonore, TN
Brothers & sisters-in-law--Roy Lee and Marie Self of Madisonville, TN--J.R. and Mindy Self of Vonore, TN
Several nieces & nephews

Funeral 8:00 p.m. Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Biereley-Hale Chapel, Rev. Ronnie Davis, Rev. Ralph Patton officiating. Interment 11:00 a.m. Wednesday at Citico Cemetery in Vonore. Family will receive friends 6-8 p.m. Tuesday at Biereley-Hale Funeral Home, Madisonville. TN.

===================================================================

MINOR SELF LINES
part 3
by Barbara Peck and Tim Seawolf-Self

In 2003, we presented an article on the major unconnected Self lines. Now we'd like to concentrate on the minor lines that are still not connected to Olde Robert Selfe, even by "best evidence." In this third installment, we've included Self branches from Georgia. We hope to feature more small family lines in the following newsletters.

GEORGIA

Can you help identify the origins of these minor Self lines?

WILLIAM R. SELF: William R. Self lived in Bartow County, GA. He was born Feb. 1863, somewhere in GA and married his wife, Melissa S., who was born Nov. 1866 in SC. His children were: Jessie C. (1887), Francis Erastus (1889-1967), Lewis C. (1894), Robert L. (1896), and William H. (1898). Francis married Cora Mae Marshall, b. May 15, 1890 and died Sep. 10, 1964 and had 5 children.

JAMES SELF: James Self, b. Oct. 1853, and his wife, Susan, lived in Berrien County, GA. This couple had 5 children--Wright, Leonard, Pearl, Mattie, and Serafe. Where did they come from, and where did they go?

JACKSON SELF: Bibb County was home to Jackson and Fannie (Sullivan) Self until they moved to Houston County, GA. They also had 5 children: Cleveland, Willa, Mamie, Maude, and Pauline. We only know that Pauline married someone named Davis.

ADA SELPH: She must be part of the general Selph line that lived in the area, but we can't place her. Ada Selph was born Aug. 4, 1893 in Brooks County, GA and died May 26, 1983 in Tift County. She married Joseph Washington Copeland (1892-1977). This couple had 6 children who all remained in Brooks County. Who were Ada's parents?

UNKNOWN SELF: Which Self married a woman named Nancy and lived in Cass County? Their children, born in the period from 1825 through 1838, were Samuel, Priscilla, Delia, Sarah Caroline, Martha, Nancy, and Thomas Jefferson. Sarah Caroline (1832-1906) was wife of John Wesley Gilliam.The Gilliams had 7 children: Thomas, Ettey, Robert, Sarah, Frances, Martha, and Mary Jane. We know that Thomas married and that Robert and Mary Jane died young. Sarah and Frances died without issue. What happened to Ettey and Martha?

THOMAS SELF: Thomas Self and wife, Elizabeth, appear in the 1880 Census of Colquitt County along with their 8 children. Thomas was 37, and his wife was 38. The children--John, James, Nancy, Mobley, Joel, Clifford, Charley, and Warren--ranged in age from 1 year to age 12. Where did Thomas come from, and what was Elizabeth's maiden name.

JOHN SELF: Another mystery man is John Self, b. 1827 in GA. His wife was named Elizabeth, and she was 20 years his junior. They had 6 children: Mary, Samuel, Isaac, George, Jack, and Thadie, and are listed in the 1880 Census for Dodge County, GA.

IDA SELPH: Also in Dodge County was Ida (Selph) Yawn, wife of Reubin William Yawn (variant spelling, Yaun). Their 5 children were Lula (1888), Reuben Obley (1890), Lilla (1892), Gladys Inez (1894), and Sam (1901-1957). Who were Ida's parents?

ANDREW JACKSON SELF: There were lots of Selfs named after Andrew Jackson. This one was born June 1858 and married to Sallie, b. Mar. 1855. Their 7 children were: William, David W., Archibald, Andrew J., Sarah B., Elizabeth, and Mildred. They lived in Dooly County.

NANCY SELF: Nancy Self was born about 1791 in VA. She died 1853 in Elbert County, GA. She m. Abraham Parks in 1806 and had children: Elizabeth (Parks) Highsmith; Marshall; Linsey; Mary (Parks) Steefle; and John Marshall Parks. Much of this family moved to MS by the turn of the 20th century.

ROBERT SELF: Robert Self, b. 1813 in NC., shows up in Floyd County, GA sometime before 1842. His wife's name was Susan, and she was approximately a year older than her husband. They had 10 children: Sarah, Mary, David, John, Hannah, Susan, Elizabeth, Margaret, Robert, and Noah. Which Self branch does this family belong to?

HENRY E. SELF: We have 1785 as a birthdate for Henry E. Self of Floyd County, GA. If that were true, his wife, Emily, would be 45 years his junior! He would have been 63 at the birth of his first child, John--who was followed by Nancy, Mary, Sarah, and Cruluis in 1856. What is Henry's real birthdate, and where does he come from? This may be the same person with a more reasonable birth date: Born 1825, Henry E. Self lived in Cass County, GA. He and his wife, Emily, had 5 children: James, Nancy, Mary, Sarah, and Henry. It's very likely that his father's name was also Henry, but we don't know which Henry that would be.

MARY ANN SELPH: Mary Ann Selph was born Nov. 4, 1820 in SC and d. July 4, 1908 in Cherokee County, AL. She m. Hillary Meeks in 1840 and lived in Bartow County, GA. We know of at least one child, William Sheldon Meeks (ABT 1841 - ABT 1867), ancestor of Cousin Gary who's been searching forever for his ancestry.

JAMES T. SELF: In Forsyth County, there is a mystery man--James T. Self (b. 1852) He was married to Emily C., and had 3 children in 1880: John (1876), Catherine (1877), and Lela (1879). Curiously, in Milton County, GA, also in the 1880 Census, is James Self (b. 1847) who's married to wife, Sena. They just happen to have children John (1874), Catherine (1876), and Bobbie (1879). These two James Selfs seem remarkably similar. Where did they come from? What is their Self line? And are they related?

WILLIAM SELF: Greene County, GA was home to William Self (b. about 1808) and his wife, Matilda (McGiboney) (Knowles) Self (1800-1833). They had one son, James E. (1831-ABT 1865) who married Artimissa Jordan. Who was William Self?

WILLIAM S. SELPH: William S. Selph was born 1815 in SC. His parents came from NC and VA, respectively. He m. Lizzie ?? who was 19 years his junior. They lived in Gwinnett County, GA and had two daughters, Ada and Ella.

WILLIAM SIMPSON SELF: Another William--William Simpson Self, lived in Hall County, GA and very well could be related to Tim's family in some way. He m. Mary Ann Hendricks in 1846 and had four known children: William Greenberry, James, David, and Sam (not really our family names).

BERTHA SELF: Who was Bertha Self (1827-1902) who m. Jeremiah Seago and lived in Houston County, GA? There were 6 children in this family: George, William, Solomon, James, Martha, and Caroline.

DAVID SELF: There are also some unidentified Selfs in Irwin County. One is David Self, b. Feb. 1854, who m. Ellen, b. Oct. 1868. The first daughter was named Sarah. The subsequent children were: Elizabeth, Annie, Thomas, William, and Ernest. Because there is a 10 year gap between Elizabeth and Annie, we could speculate that Ellen was not the mother of Sarah and Elizabeth. If she were, she would have been just 14 when the child was born.

J. W. SELF: Another Irwin County Self is J. W. Self, born 1850 and married to Elizabeth, b. 1854. Their children: Emily, Jackson, Frank, Edward, Mary, Warren, Rhoda, Martin, and Marvin (the last two were twins).

REBECCA SELF? Who was Rebecca Self, b. 1795 in SC and died before June 1, 1862 in Attala County, MS? She m. Aug. 17, 1813 in Jackson County, GA., Jacob Crow, born the same year in SC and died a month after his wife in Attala County, MS. Their ten children were William, Spencer, David, Elizabeth, Riley, Rebecca, Jacob, Wiley, Sarah, and an unnamed girl who may have died young.

JOHN E. SELPH: John E. Selph lived with his family in Montgomery County, GA. He was born in 1859, his wife, Mary, b. in 1868. Their seven children were named Mary, Susan, Martha, John, William, Samuel, and Ida.

HARRIET SELF: We've long wanted to know the ancestry of Harriet Self, b. 1810 in GA. She m. Nov. 20, 1830 in Morgan County, GA., Nipper Adams, b. 1800 in VA. This couple moved, with their children James, Samuel, and Columbus, to Tallapoosa County where Nancy, Amanda, Hilliard, and Charles were born. Other Selfs in Morgan County at the time were Ransom Self (1828) and Elizabeth C. (Self) Bradley (1813)

JAMES W. SELF: In Meriwether County, there was a family headed by James W. Self (b. Nov. 1956) and his wife, Mattie K. (b. Aug. 1866). His sister, Mary Jane (b. July 1860) lived with them in 1900. They had 13 children. We'd like to know who James W. Self was--and could he be the same person as James Warren Self who shows up in the 1880 Census, married to Missouri DeLoach and having a sister, Jane? They had 2 children.

JEAN G. SELF: A really good mystery is Jean G. Self. He also lived in Meriwether County as of the 1900 Census where he was 40 years old. His wife, Victoria, was 5 years older. They had six children, and he also had a brother (probably half-brother) whose last name was "Brady."

JOHN SELF: John Self lived in Oconee County, GA. He was only 34 in 1900, and his wife, Nancy, was just 28. But they already had seven children: Will, Fanny, Gertrude, Guy, Sadie, Bridie, and Bernard. Where did John Self come from?

JOHN GRANT SELF: Another John--John Grant Self--was born in Mar. 1869 and died in 1959. His father was from NC, and his mother was from GA. He married Meca Jane Carr (1873-1913) and lived in Pickens County, GA. The couple had 12 children. He had two sisters: Rachel (Self) Chambers and Ethylene Self.

ANDREW SELF/DAVID SELF: It's possible that Andrew and David Self of Turner County, GA might be brothers or otherwise closely related. Andrew (b. 1857) lived there in 1900 with his wife, Sally. They had 2 children, Andrew and Lizzie. David Self was 3 years older than Andrew, and he was married to Ella. Their 6 children were Annie, Thomas, Willie, Earnest, David, and Susie.

SI C. SELF: We're still looking for Si C. Self who m. 1894, Martha M. Seabolt in Union County, GA. His full name was Simon Chesterfield Self, and they had 8 children.

SUMMARY

If you know about any of these Selfs from Georgia, please send us a chart or gedcom showing their ancestry. In the issues to follow, we'll be listing other "Loose Ends" from other states. You'll find these people listed on the "Loose Ends" section of "SelfSite" as well. We'd just love to put them in their place!

(NEXT: Minor Self Lines, part 4)

Maybe your ancestors used to tell stories about life in the "old days," stories you remember hearing as a child. Please tell us about them. We will even supply editing and formatting; but we'd all love to know about daily life in the Self families of old--and you may be able to help. Please contact us. And please state that your story is specifically for the newsletter.

LOOSE ENDS

Please go to our "Loose Ends" subsection at our SelfSite at RootsWeb.

DEAD ENDS

Please go to our "Dead Ends" subsection at our SelfSite at RootsWeb.

SELFS IN SPACE

What would you like to see here? This space is reserved for any topic of interest to Self cousins. Express YourSelf!!

If you do not wish to receive this electronic publication, please take a moment to e-mail us.

====================================================================

DISCLAIMERS OF WARRANTIES AND LIABILITY

Some parts of this newsletter contain information contributed by individuals. The editors may not monitor or censor the information placed on these Pages. We do not invite reliance upon, nor accept responsibility for, the information posted here.

Each individual contributor is solely responsible for the content of their information, including any and all legal consequences of the postings. We are in no way, in whole or in part, responsible for any damages caused by the content in this newsletter or by the content contributed by any person.

We do not warrant, or guarantee any of the services, products, or information used for these pages. We do not make any warranty, expressed or implied, and do not assume any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any of the information disclosed in this publication, or represent in any way that the use would not infringe privately owned rights.

NOTICE: The information in this newsletter is Copyrighted, and must not be used for any commercial purposes or republished in any form without prior permission. This newsletter is copyrighted, except where previous copyright applies.

Back to Menu

Go to Index

Go to Self Portraits