2003 messages
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Back to the front page: Alice's Interesting Dead Folks

Jan 6, 2003
from Laurence Grant Cripe
Llrnccrp @ aol.com


Jan 6, 2003
from JoAnn Clark
jojo5ca @ yahoo.com
I am a cousin of Lizzie Borden. My great grandfather, Thomas Borden, b. King Twp, Ontario Canada, b. 13 Jul 1861 and d 8 Apr 1943 York Twp Ontario Canada, was a cousin of Sir Robert Borden, a former Prime Minister of Canada. His 3x great grandfather was Richard Borden b 25 Oct 1671 Portsmouth, RI, who married Innocent Cornell abt 1692. Richard and Innocent are also seventh generation on Lizzie's chart. My father was Fred Clark b 24 Oct 1919 York Twp, Ontario, Canada, d 19 Feb 1988 Toronto. His mother was Ethel Borden b Feb 15 1895 King Twp, d. 26 Dec 1953 Toronto. Her father was Thomas Borden b 13 Jul 1861.


Jan 12, 2003
from Mary Andre
mandre221 @ netscape.net
Alice, I enjoyed your site, especially your mention of John DAHM. He is a relative of mine. You are the only other person I have found that mentions the DAHM family. I am related to Nicholas, one of John's nephews [or great-nephews].

from Alice
The older sister of George Hooker (1844-1921, Union veteran of U.S. Civil War) was Katherine Hooker (abt 1842-1890). In about 1861, Katherine married John DAHM; they had ten children: Lories (b. 1862), Mary (b. 1863), Catherine (b. 1865), George E. (b. 1867), John, Jr. (b. 1869), Nicholas (b. 1874), Theodore (b. 1877), Charles (b. 1879), Anna (b. 1882), and Peter. Katherine (Hooker) and her husband John DAHM) are buried in Lafayette, Indiana, in St. Joseph Catholic Cemetery. John Dahm (husband of Katherine Hooker) had a brother named Nicholas.

Jan 19, 2003
from Jackie D. Cripe
jackcripe @ yahoo.com
Still finding things out about my family tree after a couple of years using your information.


Jan 28, 2003
from Frances Ileane Cripe Harper
zippydodah10 @ msn.com
I was born in Wolcott, Indiana, to Thomas Earl Cripe and [his wife] Mary Edna Sheets.


Jan 29, 2003
from Joanne Schuler
schuler205 @ aol.com
Looking for Elias HUFFORD, father of Sarah E. Hufford, b. Oct. 1863 in Weatherly, Penn. Sarah married Daniel Schuler in Michigan.

from Alice
How about this: The 1870 census of Pennsylvania, Carbon County, Weatherly Borough, on the 14th of Sept., page 11, line 40, has Elias HUFFERT, age 32 (b. abt 1838), a machinist, born in Pennsylvania, his 24-year-old wife June (b. Canada, abt 1846), son Robert (9), dau. Sarah (5), and dau. Elmira (3). All children were born in Pennsylvania.

Now, good luck finding the parents of Elias. :-)

Jan 31, 2003
from Helen Miner
helenminer @ cox-internet.com
I am a descendent of Richard Adams, brother of Rachel and son of Richard Adams/Mary Cady.


Feb 5, 2003
from marsha weil williams
swilliams62 @ comcast.net
Hi Alice, We have met via email before. I am Richard Weil's daughter, and I live in Maryland. Just wanted to say hi.

from Alice
Marsha, Marsha's father, and I share the ancestors John Hockard and Margaret Hames

Feb 11, 2003
from Maryann McKinley
mvasteno @ hotmail.com
Hi Alice, I found your Sarah Wells/William Bull page on the web. My name is Mary Anne McKinley, and I am also a descendant, line of Ann. Ann Bull married William Eager, bore Sarah Wells' granddaughter Sarah Eager (b.1768) who married James McBride, and we were McBrides until my grandmother's marriage (Alma McBride, married Ringlehan). I read your story about researching the family tree and really enjoyed it. My mother's sister, Jean Ringlehan, was the Bull/McBride family historian, so I sort of grew up with the whole history as part of my childhood. I enjoyed reading your travels. I hope you had the chance to visit the Stone House (built by William Bull, 1722) and attend one of the reunions. I live in Syracuse, NY, but get down to Orange County now and then. Glad that you were able to find the history, and I hope you've registered you and yours with the family! www.bullhouse.org/

from Alice
I'm from the John Bull line. John's dau. Elizabeth m. Peter Earle; that couple became the parents of Hannah Earle. My research on Hannah took me to Orange Co., NY, where I did manage to see the Bull Stone House, complete with the stream running thru the basement. The story is that William Bull built the house over the stream so that the family would have access to water in case they were holed up against an Indian attack. The cousin who is in residence and who showed me the house also said that, when William and Sarah lived there, the basement was home for the slave couple who were part of the Bull household. Their names are unknown, but it is understood that the man helped William Bull build some of those grand, old stone houses that still grace Orange Co. The basement is used as a kitchen by today's resident family. It has a huge fireplace and windows looking over an open field. Because the house was built into a hill, the basement has a door with direct outside access, to the closeby privy, which was used by the Bulls and by the slave family. These days there is indoor plumbing for the resident family.

The wide-plank wood floors amazed me so that I asked my distant cousin, "How do you keep the floors so beautiful?" Answer: "Every hundred years or so we refinish them." My daughter was about 10 when we visited. Her favorite part of the house was the two-level attic, complete with the Indian lookout.

Feb 14, 2003
from stephen cripe
scripe @ columbus.rr.com
Father of Rod Cripe, who is son of Herb Cripe. Born May 29th, 1970. Two brothers: John Cripe, David Cripe (twin). One sister: Princess Cripe.


Feb 18, 2003
from Sandra Atwell-Tennyson
sandraatwell @ excite.com
From Rose Cottage, Hungington, Marion Bridge, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia:
I have enjoyed your site very much and found a lot of information of great help in my search for the ancestors of both my parents. Mary Lake and Thomas Skaling were my 4x greats (my maternal grandmother was Gertrude Skaling) and it has been a thrill to find them. Mary, you recall, was the daughter of Caleb LAKE of Tiverton, Rhode Island. They moved to Nova Scotia about 1757 and "went forth and multiplied." Great site - and a ton of work! Inspiring - thanks. Sandra Atwell-Tennyson


Apr 06, 2003
from Sabrina
Hello Mom, I just looked at your site. Thought I'd say that I did so. I love you Mom!!

from Momma Beard:
Happy birthday to you! Happy birthday to you! Happy birthday, my dear Sabrina! Happy birthday to you! Nineteen years ago right now, you were still in my "kangaroo pouch." You were born 15 minutes before noon, in my bed at home, with me surrounded by two certified nurse midwives and a British midwife/RN, and with a pediatrician making a house call to check you out before you were an hour out of the "kangaroo pouch." I love you, Sabrina!

Apr 12, 2003
from Uwe Probst
Uwe.Probst @ vr-web.de
Hello Alice.
My name is Uwe Probst. I come from Bleialf, Germany. My home is about 10 km from Heckhuscheid, where Gertrud and Margaretha Hammes were born. John Hockertz was born in Ihren, a small town 8 km from Bleialf. My Great-great-greatgrandmother was Gertrud (Hammes) Rolloff. She was a sister of Margaretha (Hammes) Hockertz. Greetings,
Uwe

from Alice
Oh my! You have made my day!!! If what you have written is correct, it is the first contact I've had with anyone who could even confirm that we had read a surname correctly! The couple you call John HOCKERTZ and Margaretha HAMMES have their story at this page of mine: John Hockard, case study. According to information you have at your web site, your ancestor Gertrud and my ancestor Margaret were both daughters of Georg Ackerer HAMMES (1782-1863) and Maria PüTZ VULGO STANERS (1780-1823). From your information, it appears that George Ackerer Hammes died Jan. 24, 1863. That fits with the fact that on March 23, 1863, the widower of Margaretha Hammes (John Hockert/z) was named as a guardian for some asset of his minor children. Our best guess had been that Margaretha's children took for their mother when her father died, and the dates your provide would further suggest that.

A quick 'net search turned up a family group record for HAMMES: Maria PUTZ VULGO STANERS. I know nothing about its accuracy. However, that submitted family group record shows Margaretha HAMMES born 5-Aug-1817, in Heckhuscheid, Rhe-Pfa, Germany. We had Margaret born about 1817; we could tell her approximate year of birth by how old she was on the ship's passenger list.

Below was copied from Uwe Probst's site (gone by 2008), except that I substituted my own ancestors for slots 1, 2, and 3. Uwe's ancestor chart and my ancestor chart would join and become the same at #3, where my Margaretha would be the sister to Uwe's Gertrud. The rest of the chart simply shows the ancestors of those two sisters.

Generation 1
1 Hooker, George: b. 8-Aug-1844, Germany; d. 3-May-1921, Carroll Co., Indiana (m. Elizabeth Hufford in 1870)

Generation 2
2 Hockertz, John: b. about June 1814, Germany; d. after 23-March-1863, in U.S.A., perhaps Indiana
3 Hammes, Margaretha: b. about 1817, Germany; d. probaby before June 1860, in U.S.A.

Generation 3
6 Hammes, Georg Ackerer * 06.01.1782 Winterspelt † 24.01.1863 Oberraden
7 Pütz vulgo Staners, Maria * 02.04.1780 Heckhuscheid † 02.01.1823 Heckhuscheid

Generation 4
12   Hammes, Nikolaus Ackerer * 16.04.1738 Winterspelt † < .1812 Winterspelt
13   Cremers, Margaretha * 09.09.1735 Winterspelt † 11.03.1800 Winterspelt
14   Pütz vulgo Staners, Gerhard Ackerer * 11.02.1759 Heckhuscheid † TN.1829 Heckhuscheid
15   Neuens, Anna Katharina * 27.08.1758 Leidenborn † Heckhuscheid

Generation 5
24   Hammes, Philipp Ackerer * um.1710 Winterspelt † 27.11.1739 Winterspelt
25   Habsch, Gertrud * 17.01.1712 Amelscheid † 22.08.1773 Winterspelt
26   Cremers, Philipp Ackerer, Schultheiß * 09.1705 Winterspelt † 09.08.1779 Winterspelt
27   Biehlen, Maria * 07.01.1703 Lünebach † 30.05.1780 Winterspelt
28   Pütz, Johann * 29.04.1731 Masthorn † TN.1784 Heckhuscheid
29   Staners, Maria * um.1740 Heckhuscheid † 13.05.1812 Heckhuscheid
30   Neuens Wilhelm * ??.1722 Leidenborn † 23.01.1779 Leidenborn
31   Weyers-unterst, Katharina * 09.04.1728 Hontheim † 15.01.1793 Leidenborn

Generation 6
48   Hammes, Johann Ackerer † 06.11.1732 Winterspelt
49   Rincken, Maria * um.1687 Winterspelt † 14.05.1741 Winterspelt
50   Faas, Georg Ackerer * Lanzerath † Amelscheid
51   Habsch, Helena * 26.07.1682 Amelscheid † 30.05.1747 Amelscheid
52   Hockertz, Johann Schultheiß des Hofes Winterspelt * Matzerath † ??.1748 Winterspelt
53   Cremers, Katharina * um.1670 Winterspelt † Winterspelt
54   Biehlen, Johann * um.1675 Lünebach † Lünebach
55   Meyers, Susanna * um.1681 Lünebach † Lünebach
56   Pütz, Joes Ackerer * 10.12.1685 Masthorn † Masthorn
57   Schöneckers, Elisabeth * Üttfeld † Masthorn
58   Hockelmans, Johann Hilarius * 16.09.1707 Winterscheid † Heckhuscheid
59   Staners, Anna * ??.1710 Heckhuscheid † TN.1758 Heckhuscheid
60   Neiens Johann † Leidenborn
61   N. (Neuens), Anna Elisabeth † TV.1758 Leidenborn
62   Schminnes, Anton Ackerer * 07.03.1691 Herscheid † 17.01.1767 Hontheim
63   Weyers unterst, Eva Joanna * 02.09.1693 Hontheim † 23.09.1748 Hontheim

Generation 7
98   Rincken, Johann Hilger * um.1650 Winterspelt
99   (Rincken), Katharina
102   Habsch, Nikolaus * 22.01.1663 Amelscheid † 31.01.1724 Amelscheid
103   Schue, Maria * Büdesfeld † 20.01.1695 Amelscheid
106   Schmitz, Heinrich Bergmann/Ackerer * Petit Thier † Winterspelt
107   Cremers, Margaretha * um.1640 Winterspelt † Winterspelt
112   Pütz, Matthias Ackerer * 07.07.1657 Masthorn † Masthorn
113   Meyers, Marig * Heisdorf † Masthorn
114   Schöneckers, Theodor
115   N. N.
116   Hockelmanns, Valentin * um.1670 Winterscheid † 10.06.1740 Winterscheid
117   Lamberts, Anna * 06.02.1671 Winterscheid † 26.02.1742 Winterscheid
124   Münichs, Lambert Ackerer * 18.08.1654 Herscheid † Herscheid
125   Pauls, Barbara * Hontheim † Herscheid
126   Weyers unterst, Bartholomäus Ackerer * Hontheim † 05.06.1702 Hontheim
127   Keupers, Margaretha * 21.02.1665 Hontheim † 28.02.1714 Hontheim

Generation 8
196   Rincken, Nikolaus * um.1625 Winterspelt
197   Scheuern, Anna † Winterspelt
204   Habsch, Martin † Amelscheid
205   Michels, Barbara † 15.04.1692 Amelscheid
214   Cremers, Paulus Schultheiß u. Schöffe * um.1620 Winterspelt † < .1691 Winterspelt
215   Probst, Kathrin * um.1620 Hemmeres † Winterspelt
224   Pütz, Huberti Ackerer * Masthorn † Masthorn
225   Keuls, N. * Pronsfeld † Masthorn
232   Hockelmanns, Johann Schultheiß † 11.12.1679 Winterscheid
233   (Hockelmans), Susanna * um.1640 Winterscheid † 17.04.1686 Winterscheid
234   Lamberts, Nikolaus * um.1635 Winterscheid † 12.11.1670 Winterscheid
235   Keschtges, Barbara * um.1640 Winterscheid † Hemmeres
248   Wirichs, Joannes gen. Hans Ackerer * 14.04.1630 Weinsfeld † 16.03.1689 Herscheid
249   Münichs, Marigen * Herscheid † < .1674 Herscheid
250   Pauls, N. † Hontheim
251   (Pauls), Anna * Hontheim † 29.12.1680 Herscheid
254   Pick, Johann Peter * Hontheim † 29.01.1690 Hontheim
255   Keupers, Adriane * Hontheim † TV.1671 Hontheim

Generation 9
392   Rincken, Michael Gerichts-und Amtsbote * um.1600 Winterspelt
393   (N. Rinken), Katharina
408   Habsch Jakob * um.1600 Amelscheid
409   N. N.
428   Cremers, Daniel * um.1590 Winterspelt † Winterspelt
429   N. (Cremers), N. † Winterspelt
430   Probst, Peter I Müller * um.1595 Hemmeres † Hemmeres
431   (Proost), N
468   Lamberts, Clasen * Winterscheid † 23.12.1662 Winterscheid
469   (Lamberts), Hausfrau † 27.10.1648 Winterscheid
496   Weyrichs, Nicolas * ??.1600 Weinsfeld
497   (Weyrichs), Marie * ??.1600 Niederprüm † Niederprüm

Generation 10
856   Cremers, Claß * Winterspelt † Winterspelt
857   (Cremers), Greth † Winterspelt
860   Probst Johann Müller * um.1570 Hemmeres
861   N. (Prost), N.

Apr 19, 2003
from Mike LeBaron
mischacs @ yahoo.com
I'm a historian descended from Henry and Alice Lake through my grandma, Joyce Earl. Your website was extremely helpful as I researched Alice, as it was by far the most comprehensive source. I've been trying to uncover her maiden name, though that seems rather impossible. Best wishes & thanks for the great info on our mutual ancestor!


Apr 21, 2003
from anne-marie o'connor
anne-marie.oconnor @ latimes.com
I'm a descendant of Alice Lake from my maternal grandmother, whose maiden name was Mary Butts. We have a family bible dating us back to Alice Lake with many of the names listed as descendants on your web site.


May 02, 2003
from Rob Ulery
ulery @ wfu.edu
Just doing a little Ulery family digging! I come from Goshen, IN.


May 19, 2003
from Alice Cripe Meyer
alicemeyer @ gwi.net
My cousin Nancy McPherson & I are looking for our joint family info. My father Harold CRIPE & her mother Helen CRIPE (married name EDMUNDS) (born 1901 & 1902) were the children of John Orley CRIPE & Orpha May BONE. John had a sister Alice Jane CRIPE (married name MILLER). All memtioned above (except Nancy & I) were born in Indiana. John, Harold, & Helen moved to Dunkirk, NY, in 1920s. This is my first attempt; will be thrilled with any responses. I now live in Maine, & Nancy lives in CA.


May 28, 2003
from Gerald Simmons
gsimmons @ crcwnet.com
William Simmons, son of Thomas Jefferson Simmons and Rosa Anna Cripe; second wife's maiden name is Lois E. Wakefield.


Jun 07, 2003
from David Norman Cripe
grumpypainter01 @ aol.com
I would like more informantion on my GGGGGGGGGGGGrandparents. What I have is somewhat incomplete. I have good info as far back as George Winfield Cripe and his wife Viola Felix. George's parents were Henry J Cripe and Rebecca J Weaver. Need DOB DOD DOM. On Henry's parents -- Danial B Cripe and Elizabeth Troxell -- I do not have any details. Same on Daniel B's parents, John Cripe and Catherine Stutzman, and on Elizabeth's parents Henry Troxell and Catherine Keltner. After John Cripe DOB 1775, I have that there was a Jacob Jr. 1745-1805, & there was a Jacob Sr. 1721--1802? Jacob Sr. was the stowaway? when he came from Germany? Anyone know what part of Germany he came from and who were his parents? I am just getting started into genealogy, and I want to search sides for the family for the sake of my grandchildren. Thanks to any and all for help. Please send correspondence to my email address (grumpypainter01 @ aol.com) because I don't think I can find this site again. Thanks. Dave Cripe


Jun 11, 2003
from Donna Alloco-Hufford
allocohuf @ yahoo.com
It is most interesting to see the Hufford family history unfold. My understanding is that my husband's family is from the Finger Lakes area of Southern Tier, New York. Where they settled before that no one seems to know. I have seen the family name spelled both Hufford and Hoffart, which is the way it appeared in his family bible.


Jun 25, 2003
from Lori Cope
lori @ questseeker.com
Casper Hufford is my 5G grandfather, and I'm descended from his daughter Catherine. I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate the information that you have put together on the Huffords. Your site is easy to read and informative.


Jun 26, 2003
from Hal Kaysen
hmkaysen @ mindspring.com
Enjoyed scanning your family history. The families from Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana kept up a good tradition of keeping it in the family. My Harner family which came from Virginia, to Ohio, to Indiana eventually found a few willing Huffords. Nice work. Hal Kaysen of California


Jun 27, 2003
from Jim Hufferd
jimhufferd @ wmconnect.com
I'm a member of the Rushville, Indiana, Hufferds. My great grandfather, Wm. Thomas, was decendant of George Hoffart/Hufford. I too have a copy of Franklin's book and am interested in verifiable corrections.


Jul 01, 2003
from Shirley Tolby
partrac @ aol.com
My family is descended from Gideon Franklin Hufford, married to Elizabeth Barlow. He was b. in 1805 in Kentucky to David Hufford and Sarah Henson; Gideon's grandfather was Daniel Keim Hufford, married 1st to Elizabeth, 2nd to Barbara Zeis (sic). Gideon's great grandfather was Christian Hufford, married to Elizabeth DeTurck Keim

from Alice
Here's a reply with a correction for Shirley Tolby, from Barry Wood, a Hufford cousin who has done an enormous amount of research on the early Huffords. The reply came on New Year's Eve, 2004. Among genealogists, 18 months is a good response time for a message sent forth in a bottle:

Dear distant cousin Shirley,

As you may already know, since this post was made quite a while ago, the Daniel Hufford who married Barbara Zeis was the son of Philip Hufford.  The marriage took place in 1806 (license issued 26 or 28 October) in Frederick County, Maryland, long after your Daniel Hufford (brother of Philip) had settled in Kentucky.  Also, your Daniel had three children by his second wife Barbara (_____) Hufford in Kentucky before his nephew Daniel Hufford married Barbara Zeis back in the old settlement.

Daniel and Barbara (Zeis) Hufford had two children christened at Frederick Reformed Church.

These children (Catherine and Rebecca, born in 1807 and 1809 respectively) do not match the known children of your Daniel Hufford by his second wife, Barbara (maiden name unknown).

I'm copying Alice Beard on this so that maybe she'll delete "Zeis" from her listing of your Daniel's second wife on her Casper Hufford site and the one that gives lots of descendants of Christian Hufford I in table form.

Now if you'll excuse a major digression, I'll take this opportunity to pass the following note to Alice:

Here's my list of Philip's children.  I think this is reasonably good as this was what I had when I was corresponding with Shirley Hegeman, who comes through this line:
Johannes (= John), born 12 Feb 1777, chr at Rocky Hill, d. young
Daniel, born about 1779, md 1806 Barbara Zeis
Catharine, born about 1781, md (lic 26 Oct 1809) James McDaniel [at least I THINK that this is the right Catharine)
Susanna, born about 1782  [I have her as the one who married (by license 20 Dec 1806) Griffith Mathias.  However, I note that you have her half-aunt Susannah Hufford (dau. of Christian I) as the one who married Mathias.  We'll have to sort this out.  The Mathias family of Frederick County are serious people, having had a US senator in their ranks if I recall correctly, so among them is probably a good genealogist.]
Mary, born about 1784
Johannes (= John), born 30 Sep 1786; md 28 Mar 1812 Elizabeth Houx; to Shelby County, Ohio; d. 9 Oct 1884 [This is Mrs. Hegeman's ancestor.]
Thomas, born about 1788; nothing further known, though I imagine that he may be the antecedent for my ancestor Peter  Hufford to have named a son Thomas, around 1816.
Solomon, born about 1790, md (19 Oct 1815 Polly Powell)
Elizabeth, born about 1792; probably the Elizabeth Hufford who married (license 16 March 1812) John Houx.

One other item I noticed on your bio of Christian Hufford -- you state that his first child was born in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.  I don't think so.  There was a Christian Hoffer who lived in Lancaster County, but he was from a completely different family.  My friend Walter Cole is descended from that tribe.  They occasionally put a d or t on the end of their surname, but more often were simply "Hofer" or "Huffer."

The main reason I doubt that my ancestor Christian Hufford Jr. was born in Lancaster County is that he was christened out of "New Hanover" Lutheran Church.  The Church is now at the community of New Hanover in Montgomery County, but if I recall what I read about it accurately, as of 1746 the church included responsibility for the Lutherans in Longswamp Township.  In those days I believe Longswamp included what are now Hereford Township, District Township and part of Washington Township.  The next township to the NW is Maxatawny; adjacent to the northeast across the Bucks (now Lehigh) County line was (and is) Macungie Twp.  Both Maxatawny and Macungie are mentioned in the papers on the land patent of Christian's father George Hufford (Hans Jerg Hoffart) from the 1730s.

The Keims' homeplace was in Oley Township, to the southwest.  To me all these factors suggest that Christian Hufford I was likely living in the Longswamp / Maxatawny area when Christian Jr.  was born.  However, it's also possible that Christian I had already started farming in Whitpain Township, which is close by Germantown where Anna Margaretha Hufford had been christened on Christmas day in 1752. 

You'll recall that Whitpain was the location of the farm that he advertised for sale in, I think, 1754 in a German language newspaper published in Philadelphia.  If memory serves, this was the newspaper published by Christopher Sauer, who may have been a distant relative of Christian Hufford I on his mother's side.  I should think that you might want to add this to your synopsis of Christian's life; not necessarily my speculation about the Sauer connection, but at least the fact of his residence in Whitpain Twp. from at least 1752 to 1754.  I think you mentioned the christening of Anna Margaretha "Hoffarth" at St. Michael's & Zion in Germantown, but I don't think that you included her age at christening -- ten weeks -- or the fact that the mother Elizabeth "Kaym" was also christened the same day at age 28 years.  Little girls are christenened under their maiden names, so in this case the pastor thought that that was appropriate for Elizabeth, too.  The christening record is of interest not only because it confirms Elizabeth's maiden name but also because it reflects that inasmuch as she was born into a German Baptist family, she had not been baptized as an infant.  At least not as a Lutheran.  She had gone along with Christian I being baptized a Lutheran, but was not herself baptized at that time.  More of this ambivalence on the part of the Huffords as to whether to hook up with the Lutheran Church permanently, or stick around with the Brethren. 

Alice, I think you and I have discussed this before, and I probably mentioned that we know the Huffords were Lutheran back in Schwaigern, because they're all over the local churchbook, but something happened at some point in the 18th century.  Maybe it was during the 1729 sea voyage as they hung out with Alexander Mack on the ship "Allen."  I don't have to tell you about his significance in Brethren history.  Then there's the connection with Elizabeth -- from a Brethren family -- yet at least two of the seven children of Christian I and Elisabeth Keim are christened in  Lutheran Churches.  (I note by the way that these are the ones named for Christian I himself (my ancestor) and for his mother Anna Margaretha Most.)  Then after Elisabeth dies, they're pretty tight with the Lutheran Church again, at Rocky Hill, which may largely be Anna Catharina's doing. 

Out in Washington County, Pa., my branch isn't showing up much at ANY churches (whose records survive), except that Hannah (yougest dau. of Christian II) was baptized as an adult at Bethlehem ("Dutch Glory") Lutheran Church.  On the other hand, older daughter Elizabeth (md. J. Garber or Carver) appears on the membership list of the local Brethren congregation.

Coincidentally, getting back to Whitpain, it is also the location of the oldest surviving home built by any of my Pennsylvania ancestors -- Abraham Dawes Sr. and his wife Edith Ellis -- upon their arrival from London.  This is an absolutely awesome three-story stone & stucco structure on the Butler Pike, just northeast of the Broad Ax Tavern.  The walls on the ground floor are about 16 inches thick. It took almost 160 years for the descendants of the Dawes family (in the form of my grandmother Hattie Emma Spencer) to get together with those of their Whitpain neighbors the Huffords (in the form of Christian's great-great-grandson Lester Charles Hufford, my grandfather) out in Iowa.

On your material about the Stihlis, I was interested to note their connection with the Horns, and that there was a Magdalena among the Horns.  Where Christian Hufford II settled in western Pennsylvania was a stone's throw from a Horn settlement on Ten Mile Creek.  The "Horn Papers," which have been proven to consist in part of fraudulent history, nevertheless give the name of the husband of Hannah Hufford (presumably the same as the dau. of Christian I) -- Joseph Crawford. 

OK, enough rambling.  Let me wish you both a very Happy New Year -- and while I'm passing out wishes for 2005 let's hope that THIS year will be the year when we find out the maiden name of Maria Magdalena, wife of Christian Hufford Jr.!  I have only been looking for 37 years.

Barry

Jul 06, 2003
from Douglas Stewart Aldrich
kaandsa @ aol.com
After checking through your genealogy info, I find myself a 7th cousin, once removed, to infamous Lizzie Borden. Now THAT'S a skeleton for the closet!


Jul 21, 2003
from Tara Hufford Walker
taralynn1 @ cox.net
My father is Donald Earl Hufford. His father is Earl Leslie Hufford. His father is Jesse Emanuel Hufford. His father is Abraham. His father is Casper. His father is Christian Hufford. I am so excited to find this link!


Jul 22, 2003
from ROBERT REVIS
ASHBYREVIS50 @ AOL.COM
SAMUEL DANIELS AND SARAH COCHRAN ARE MY 3 G GRANDPARENTS. ENJOYED READING YOUR STORY.


Jul 22, 2003
from Jean Yeakey
jryeakey @ favorites.com
My husband Richard Yeakey had a great grandmother named Hester Ulrey; she married Samuel Clymer; they lived in North Manchester, Indiana. Hester's father was Stephen Ulery, married to Mary Swihart. I do genealogy and have been trying to trace the Ulerys and found this information on the internet. We live in northern Utah, and I do get to the LDS library so this information will help me a lot.


Aug 07, 2003
from Cecelia Byrne Dempsey
FRAKELL @ msn.com
From my research, I came across data which affiliated the EARLE line with the slavery in the Caribbean. The name Payne is closely affiliated with the Slave Trade. The family were merchants and seafarers. To my knowledge the reference to this tie is located among the Earle family papers located at the Huntington Memorial Library in California. There is a reference that the Paynes would obtain a good price for the sale of slaves. There is a reference to the Baron Ralph Payne, Governor of St. Kitts, and his relationship to Lord Grenville, Prime Minister of the English Parliament, who advocated the abolishment of slavery. His son, Robert Payne, whom the genealogists claim as nonexistent, received a presidential pardon from John Adams for his loyalist activities during the American Revolution. As an observer of the Boston Tea Party, in 1773, he wrote a letter describing the incident to his brother Daniel in York, England. Robert Payne is also mentioned in the Congressional documentation for restitution of property lost during the aftermath of the War. He also is mentioned in the 1790 census as a resident in Albany, New York. As an elderly gentleman, his marriage was published in New York.

from Alice
Genealogical research is distinctly person specific: The genealogist must tie the known people to others, who then become "known people." I see no connection between the EARLE line or the PAYNE line mentioned elsewhere at this site. That is not to say that there IS no connection, but there's no reason to believe or suspect that there is any connection. There were lots of people with the surname EARLE or EARL, not all related. And the same for the surname PAYNE or PAINE or PAIN.

I've no complaint or shock if any of my ancestors were slave traders; their sins are not my sins. Goodness knows I've got sins of my own! However, I do genealogical research one person at a time, one family at a time, making the connections, and making sure the connections are valid.

John Payne has been a challenge. I have a "tentative" family of origin for him. I have reason to believe that his father was named Prosper Payne, Sr., and that he had a brother named Prosper Payne, Jr. Beyond that, there seems good likelihood that John had sisters Esther and Unis, and a brother Samuel. But there's no certainty, and there aren't even guesses beyond that.

The guess of the brother comes because John Payne and Prosper Payne, Jr., married sisters -- Hannah and Rachel Earl. Now, maybe John and Prosper were cousins, or maybe they weren't related at all, but the odds are that they were brothers marrying sisters. Based on that, the fact that Prosper Payne, Jr., was a "junior" suggests a father with the same name. However, that ain't necessarily so. Folks didn't follow the same naming habits back then that we use now. ... Where do the other siblings come in? Records from the First Presbyterian Church of Goshen, Orange Co., NY, show an Esther Pain, m. Joel Brigt, 10 Feb 1780; a Samuel Pain, m. Patience Oldfield, 12 Feb. 1781; and a Unis Pain, m. John Avery, 12 May 1788. That's the same church where Prosper Pain/Payne m. Rachel Earl, 2 Jan. 1790.

And that's as far as I've been able to get with my Paynes.

Now, the Earle folks at this site also show no connection to the Earles you write of. Here's the Earle line studied at this site, beginning with a woman who was born in Orange Co., NY, and who died in Illinois. It is in ahnentafel format, with standard genealogical shorthand:
1: Hannah EARLE, b. 1775, Orange Co., NY; d. 1855, Vermilion Co., IL; m. John PAYNE, Sr.
2: Peter EARLE, b. abt 1748, Orange Co., NY; d. Mar 1819, Orange Co., NY; will dated 14 Jun 1818, will proved 27 Mar 1819, Orange Co., NY; DAR-established patriot from NY; signed Loyalty Oath; Quaker; m. Elizabeth BULL, b. & d. Orange Co., NY.
4: John EARLL, b. Jun 1712, RI; will dated 15 May 1781; will proved 31 Aug 1786, Orange Co., NY; DAR-established patriot from NY; Quaker; m. Rachel ADAMS, b. Windham Co., CT.
8: William EARLL, b. abt 1666, of Portsmouth, RI; d. aft 1702, probably in Little Compton, RI; m. Hepzibah BUTTS.
16: Ralph EARLE, chr. Apr 1632, Portsmouth, RI; d, 1716, Dartmouth, MA; m. Dorcas SPRAGUE.
32: Ralph EARLE, chr. Feb 1606, Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire, England; d. 1678 Portsmouth, RI; will dated 19 Nov 1673, Portsmouth, RI; m. in Hertfordshire to Joan SAVAGE.
64: Ralph EARLL, b. abt 1580, Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire, England; bur. Mar 1657, Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire, England; m. Margaret BROWNE (twin).

If you know or can see the connections, please share, and I'll be delighted to consider a few more ancestors found and connected, slave traders or not!

Aug 14, 2003
from Donna M. Hufford, DeFrangesco
ddefrangesco @ fuuflaw.com
My maiden name was Donna Maria Hufford. My father's name was Woodrow Wilson Hufford. He was born Nov. 5, 1917, and was deceased June 25, 2001. His mother's name [before marriage] was Bessie Loftus. I'm not sure what his father's name was. My father had three brothers, Howard (Dutch) Hufford, Bowman Hufford, Charles Hufford and two sisters, Audrey Hufford and Norma Hufford. I don't see any of these people listed here.

from Alice
Woodrow Wilson Hufford's father's name was John H. Hufford (b. abt 1867). Woodrow was two years old when the census taker stopped by on 12-Jan-1920. Woodrow, his parents, and siblings were in Pennsylvania, Montgomery County, West Conshohocken Borough, Enumeration District 189. The family is listed on sheet 14-B, starting at line 69. The dad is listed as born in Ohio; all other families are listed as born in Pennsylvania. The father was working in an iron mill; job is listed as "Structural ----," with the 2nd word not readable. Mom's name was C. Bessie, age 34. Siblings were L. Charles (11), Bowman J. M. (8), Audrey May (6), H. Howard (4 years and 5 months). Woodrow is listed as 2 years and 2 months, and his name is listed as "W. Woodward."

The 1930 census (same county) has his name spelled "Woodrow W." And by 1930, father John H. Hufford was working as a lock tender on a canal.

It would require research to determine whether your grandfather John H. Hufford descended from the Huffords discussed at this web site.

Aug 15, 2003
from Nicholas Leon Cripe
ncripe @ cfl.rr.com
Didn't have much time to check the site out yet. Just getting off of work. Plan on spending more time once I get home.


Aug 16, 2003
from George Donald Copeland, Sr.
georged @ inteliport.com
I come in on the Lawrence Copeland and John Chappell families. The two come together with Gulielma Chappell and Dempsey Little Copeland, grandparents of my father Henry Fernando Copeland. Check all webs to see what I can put together. Got in wreck in 1999; in wheelchair, so I got a computer and started on my family and got hooked. Always looking for info and just reading about Copeland and Chappell Family. George
114 Jordan Loop Road; Tyner, NC 27980


Aug 30, 2003
from Mary Jo (Ulrey) Vepley
mjvepley @ calcon.net
Very interesting; however, I have more investigating to do!


Aug 30, 2003
from Lynn Sewell
lbsewell @ multipro.com
Interested in your web site due to Sarah Smith who was married to Jacob Cripe; Sarah Cripe who was married to John Walter Steele, and Una Cripe who was married to Layfette Steele. The site is quite interesting as it dances around many of my Brethern names. Lynn Hilty Sewell


Aug 31, 2003
from Dale Gene Hufford
Blblckb @ AOL.com
I am attempting to locate the Hufford family crest and coat of arms. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

from Alice:
Check this page: The HOFFART Crest

Sep 28, 2003
from Barbara
seab @ yhti.net
I am the GreatGranddaughter of Barbara Ellen Copeland Brumley who is a direct descendant of one Lawrence Copeland. I have just begun my search for my ancestors in this line, so I have been very pleased at what I could find so far. Barbara


Nov 13, 2003
from Ruth
ras49ers @ hotmail.com
I am helping my friend find her ancestors. Her dad's name is Bert Hufford; he was married to Wilma Chambers. Bert's parents' names were Gilbert and Lena (Bickford). Bert has 5 brothers, and 1 half-brother. If you can help, please email me. Thank you. From best friend of Carrie Hufford.

from Alice
Gilbert I. Hufford with wife Lena is found on a WW I Draft Registration Card that he signed in Sanborn Co., South Dakota, on 17-Sep-1917. Date of birth 19-May-1874.

Family is on 1920 Census in South Dakota, Sanborn Co., Diana Township, Enumeration District 220, on 19-Jan-1920. Gilbert and wife Lena (36) are living with her father; her father (George W. Bickford, 77) was the home owner. Their children were Wesly C. (one year) and Chester (one month). Place of birth for Gilbert and his parents is listed as Illinois.

That was the easy part; finding the parents of Gilbert was a good bit harder, but here's the line:

Bert, b. 1923 > Gilbert, b. 1874 > Isaac Wesley, b. 1845 > James, b. abt 1822 > George, b. 1795 > John, b. 1758 > Christian, b. 1716 in Schwaigern.

Nov 27, 2003
from ray willison
rayjoy11 @ hotmail.com
Just checking Huffords. My great grandfather was Andrew Jackson Hufford, of David Hufford. Fairfield, County, Ohio


Nov 29, 2003
from Dennis Buerge
denny @ mail.inct.net
Greetings from Indianapolis. My wife is a descendant of Hans Pieter Kip and Rachel DuFour. If anyone would like to share notes and info on them, please contact me. Have a good day. Dennis Buerge

from Alice
Mr. Buerge is speaking of the parents of Hester/Esther KIP, who was christened in Germany on 28-Aug-1656. She grew up to become the wife of Johannes DeTURK, who was born 30-Jul-1650. A daughter of Hester/Esther and Johannes was Katarina/Bertha DeTURK, who died before 1731 in Berks Co., PA, having been the first wife of Johannes KEIM, who was from Speier, Germany. A daughter of this last couple was Elizabeth KEIM, born in 1723 in Oley Valley, Berks Co., PA; she married Christian HOFFARTH, and the surname mutated to HUFFORD as it came down to my more recent ancestors.

Mr. Buerge has the last name of Hans Pieter KIP's wife as "DuFOUR." I have her last name as ROYERS. There's some uncertain disagreement among genealogists about the woman's surname, and I'll grant that debate to those more experienced in that particular area of genealogical research.

Dec 01, 2003
from Doyle Rogers
door @ copper.net
GREAT ! I MUST go back into your site & read-read-read. It has been several years since I have researched Permelia PAYNE-DOYLE-MALCOM.


Dec 02, 2003
from Prudy
prudy511 @ msn.com
I cannot tell you how excited I was to find such a vast knowledge of a branch of mine, Payne, along with the possibility of other connections. I will be searching and searching for connections, and the way you set it up, it should not be too hard. Thanks again


Dec 04, 2003
from Beth Brackney
b_brackney @ yahoo.com
I am tied in 2 ways:
1. Lydia Brackney is a distant cousin;
2. Sarah Borden married into the Brackney family. She is a cousin of Lizzie Borden!
I live a little over an hour from Owasco and am very interested in visiting the Beard Cemetery!


Dec 16, 2003
from Jessie Wein
volunteers @ gayndah.qld.gov.au
jessie @ burnett.net.au
I am interested as I am searching for Wein connections.

from Alice
The WEINs fit in this way: Casper Hufford (1762-1825) married and had all of this children with Catharine STIHLI (1767-1787). Catharine Stihli was the daughter of Christoph STIHLI and his 2nd wife CATHARINA WINE. Catharina was the daughter of Johann George WEIN and his wife Margaretha HORN. The will of Johann George WEIN was proved 26-Dec-1797 in Frederick Co., MD.