…“Tale of Two Johns” Character Profiles

 

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Mary Ann Knox

b. 28 May 1785 – d. 27 May 1855

 

John’s near-kin; probably half-sister, but unproven child of Allison and Mary (Smith-Knox) Knox;

some accounts say Allison was her uncle, not father. See email exchanges below at bottom.

 

 

 

Mecklenburg County NC Court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions

1826 February Session, page 124

 

[Tuesday, Feb 28, 1826]  Ordered that John Knox be Guardian for John R., Winfield, Smith, Eleanor, Thomas, Samuel & Joseph Shelby, children of Moses Shelby who appeared in Court and was bound with James Doherty, Security, in the Sum of L250.

 

[Mecklenburg County NC- Minutes of the Court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions - Volume III: 1821-1830; transcribed by Herman W. Ferguson, page 94]

 

---------------------------------------------

Notes re Guardianship Bond:

 

1) Notice that this bond does not state that Moses Shelby is deceased...this is unusual.  Is it also significant?  No Estate papers are filed in Mecklenburg County for this Moses Shelby…where, and when, did he die?

 

2) Bond is for only seven of his nine children…two minors are omitted.  Why?

 

3) Moses Shelby m. Mary Ann Knox, dau of Allison and Mary ((Smith) Knox) Knox.  Mary Ann Knox is said to be the half-sister of John Knox, son of Capt Patrick and Mary (Smith) Knox. 

 

4) Moses Shelby was the son of Dr. Evan Shelby and Susannah Polk Alexander, dau of Benj Alexander and Susannah Polk.  

 

5) Doherty/Shelby/Alexander Connections:

 

James Doherty/Doughtery (Security on the Guardian Bond) was the husband of Rachel McAuley, daughter of Daniel J. and Prudence (Alexander) McAuley/McCauley.  Prudence (Alexander) McCauley was the sister of Stephen Winslow Alexander.  Prudence and Stephen Winslow Alexander were children of James and Rachel (Alexander) Alexander.

 

Winfield Shelby (son of Moses & Mary Ann) m. Melissa Alexander, daughter of Stephen Winslow Alexander and Isabella Shelby...  Isabella Shelby was Moses A. Shelby's Aunt...she was the sister of his father, Dr. Evan Shelby, daughter of Moses Shelby Sr and Isabella Alexander.

 

Too many Alexanders!!

 

 

 

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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bruckner/bethel_meck/bk2.html

 

SHELBY Records found at Bethel Presbyterian Church, Mecklenburg Co, NC

 

Session Records - Book #2:

 

 

page 4 - White Communicants

 

Winfield Shelby - June 1831

 

page 5 - White Communicants

 

Mary* Shelby - Aug 11, 1833  [noted as "removed" which means moved...]

J. M. Shelby - June 3, 1834  [noted as "removed" which means moved...]

Eleanor S. Shelby - June 3, 1834  [noted as "removed" which means moved...]

 

[* Speculate that this MAY be Mary Ann (Knox) Shelby, widow of Moses A. Shelby]

 

 

page 12 -  Adult Baptisms:

 

James M. Shelby - June 8, 1834

Eleanor S. Shelby - June 8, 1834

 

page 16 - Infant Baptisms:

 

Andrew Springs Knox* - March 1834

Joel Houston Shelby - March 1834

Franklin B. Shelby - March 1834

 

*[son of John Knox, half-brother of Mary Ann (Knox) Shelby, and guardian of Moses Shelby's children]

 

 

page 17 - Infant Baptisms:

 

Mary Ann Salina Shelby - July 29, 1838

Mary Jane Shelby - Nov 16, 1839

James Adams Shelby - April 23, 1843 - Parents J. M. & Amanda Shelby

 

 

page 18 - Infant Baptisms:

 

Mary Eleanor Shelby - Nov 24, 1844 - Parents J. M. & Amanda Shelby

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Mary Ann Shelby is said to have d. 1855 in Dallas Co, near Selma, AL. 

No 1850 Census record is found.

 

 

===============================================================

CAUTION...there is a lot of debate regarding the ancestry of Mary Ann Knox...

The following sites and emails document the problems:

===============================================================

 

 

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Martha Mordecai <[email protected]> wrote:

Peggy,

On going through your info on Mary Ann Knox Shelby, I have to say that filtering through the Shelby's is about as messy as the Knox's.  There are things to be straightened out there also.


Back in the 50s my cousin, Bobbie Kaiser (Rich at the time), was working with Cass K. Shelby (foremost authority on the Shelby's of Tregaron, Wales).  They came up with information based on misgathered census data that lead them to believe that Moses Shelby (m. Mary Ann Knox) was "Moses A. Shelby".  Also, that Mary Ann Knox was daughter of Samuel Knox. 

 

Far from true.  Moses A. Shelby, b. abt 1789 in Mecklenburg Co., was the son of Thomas Shelby and Mary Helms.  Thomas was son of Sgt. Moses Shelby and Isabell Alexander (?).  Moses A. Shelby was married to Martha Washington Polk, daughter of Charles A. Polk, son of William J. Polk II & Margaret Nancy Taylor) and Phoebe Helms.  William J. Polk (great-grandfather of Pres. James Knox Polk).  Margaret Nancy Taylor was a great-grand  aunt to Pres. Zachary Taylor.  Early America (specially in NC) was rampant with relatives of US Presidents.  One of the Knox line's starts out in Rowan Co., NC and ends in Mecklenburg Co.;  The Polk line starts out in Chester Co., PA and ends up in Mecklenburg Co.; the Knox's of Steele Creek began in Mecklenburg.  Patrick started in Lincoln Co., and was married in Mecklenburg Co., wasn't he?.  And Allison ended in Mecklenburg Co.  All roads led to Mecklenburg Co., at least for a time, where the Polk's, Alexander's, Shelby's, and Knox's co-mingled.

Samuel Knox, son of John Knox II & Jean Gracy (Gracie),  who married Mary Lucky had a daughter named Mary Knox in Rowan Co., but I don't believe for a second that she was our Mary Ann Knox because they ended up in Jackson Co., GA.

Later,
Martha

 

 

===============================================================

http://www.mytree.net/gen/getperson.php?personID=I890&tree=MAST

[email protected]

 

My theory is that Allison was not the uncle, but the father of Mary Ann Knox. Allison had a brother named Patrick who was married to a Mary Smith, 1766 in Mecklenburg Co., NC. They had five children: Matthew, Ruth, Hannah, John and Jane (or Jean). When Patrick was killed 20 Jun 1780 at the Battle of Ramsur's Mill, Lincoln Co., NC, during the Revolution, Allison married Mary Smith Knox, 1781 in Mecklenburg Co., NC, and adopted Patrick's children. I believe Allison and Mary had a daughter whom they named Mary Ann. Their daughter would have been born at the correct time for Mary Ann's birthdate.

 

I think the John Knox, who was appointed guardian of Moses & Mary Ann's children following Moses' death in 1826, Charlotte,Mecklenburg Co., NC, was Mary Ann Knox Shelby's half brother and son of Patrick and Mary Smith Knox. I also believe Mary Ann Knox and Moses Shelby gave one of their children the first name of "Smith "because that was Mary Ann's mother's maiden name. (MCMordecai-2004)

 

--------------------

PRB NOTES:

 

Who are Mary Ann Knox parents:  Allison and Mary (Smith Knox) Knox or Allison and Jane? Knox.  But...who is Jane Knox????

 

References in Patrick's Estate papers give a timeframe that Allison  m. Patrick's widow between his death (1780) and March 1, 1786 when papers state: Administrator "Allison Knox now married to relict"

 

If Mary Ann was b. May 28, 1785, and Allison is said to have m. Jane AFTER the death of Mary...then Mary Ann must be the child of Mary Smith Knox...since she was m. to Allison Knox  between 1780 and March 1786.

 

Could Mary have been Mary Jane...causing this confusion?

 

==========================================================

READ THIS EXCHANGE WITH MAC ALEXANDER REGARDING

DOCUMENTATION  OF MARY ANN'S PARENTAGE:

==========================================================

 

---- Original Message -----

From: Ezra \"Mac\" Alexander   <[email protected]>

To: [email protected]

Sent: 7/8/2004 1:07:55 PM

Subject: Mary Ann Knox

 

 

Peggy,

 

She was born May 28, 1785, reportedly the d/o Allison & Jane Knox.  Mary Ann married my greatuncle of yore, Moses Shelby b. ca 1784.  They were the ancestors of today's Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama.

 

Moses was the son of Dr. Evan and Susannah Polk (Alexander) Shelby...he was a pvt. in Rev. War.  They had 6 daughters and 4 sons.

 

Susannah's parents were Benjamin and Susannah (Polk) Alexander of Mecklenburg Co.,NC.  Susannah who married Dr. Evan Shelby above was my Alexander greataunt of yore.  Their dau., Susannah Shelby, became my 3Ggreatgrandmother, who married my 3Ggreatgrandfather, Daniel Alexander [1st cousins].  Susannah (Shelby) Alexander was also my Shelby great aunt of yore.

 

Do you have anything for these Knoxes, or the wife of Allison Knox, father of Mary Ann (Knox) Shelby?

 

Thanks, Mac.

 

 

-------------------------------------------

MY SECOND REPLY: July 9, 2004:

------------------------------------------

 

 

Hi Mac, I was looking at your note again this morning, and noticed Mary Ann's May 28, 1785  birthdate, and now am wondering if there is more confusion here than I first thought...

 

We know that Mary (Smith?) Knox, widow of Patrick, wife of Allison Knox was still alive in March 1, 1786 -- this according to this statement  contained within Patrick's Estate Papers:  On March 1, 1786 papers were filed stating that Administrator "Allison Knox now married to relict" ...which means that  if Allison Knox was the father of Mary Ann Knox, b. March 1, 1786, then Mary (Smith? Knox) Knox  was by default the mother of Mary Ann Knox.

 

I've read postings on the internet that state Jane Knox (the presumed widow of Allison)  married a brother of Allison after his death.   I do not know when Allison died (no will or estate records found in my searches), but he appears to be very much alive in Mecklenburg on the 1830 Census...and  there is no female in his household old enough to have been the mother of Mary Ann Knox.    Do you know which brother of Allison his widow Jane was to have married?)

 

Also, what is the evidence that Allison Knox was her father?

 

I look forward to your view of this info. 

 

Best Regards,

 

 

Peggy Reece Bruckner

[email protected]

 

-------------------------------------

Mac's  July 22, 2004 

REPLY to above note:

-------------------------------------

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ezra \"Mac\" Alexander

To: [email protected]

Sent: 7/22/2004 12:10:09 PM

 

Subject: Re: MORE RE: Mary Ann Knox...

 

Peggy, I do not have any source for them.  Not in the notes, at least, but I got the info and thought it valid at one time.  I lost my files at one time and had to reconstruct them.  But, likely, I had the info when I was using  a very poor quality computer (nephew's jr. high model) and was reluctant to put any notes down for fear of losing the storage.

 

I have made notes which you sent.  If I ever see anything on them in the future, I will let you know as I have your email address in my notes for this family.  Please do the same.  I think that I told you that per my file I show a Patrick Knox as Allison's brother, w/o backup.

 

Mac.

 

---------------

MY REPLY:

---------------

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peggy Bruckner

To: Ezra \"Mac\" Alexander

Sent: 7/22/2004 7:09:47 PM

Subject: Parents of Mary Ann Knox...

 

 

Hi Mac, thanks for looking.

 

In the absence of other proof, for the time being I'm going to assume that if Allison Knox was Mary Ann's father, then Mary ((Smith) Knox) Knox  (the widow of Capt Patrick Knox), whom we know for sure was married to Allison Knox during this timeframe) had to be her mother, since current proof offers no alternative.  

 

Please let me know if you uncover any new data on this mystery!  Good luck with your research.

 

Best regards, Peggy

 

 

 

 

=====================

GENFORUM POSTINGS

=====================

 

 Mac Alexander 

 Subject: Re: Knox - Shelby mar. bef. 1810 Meck. NC

 Post Date: May 28, 2000 at 16:51:44

 Message URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/knox/messages/1071.html

 Forum: Knox Family Genealogy Forum

 Forum URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/knox/

 

 

Hi Franck: Years ago, I obtained information w/o proof that Mary Ann Knox's parents were Allison (Alison?) and Jane (nee) Knox. That is in one of my files  SHELBY11.FTW). In  another file, ALEX2.(12).FTW, I have another father for her and it is John Knox.

 

 

Recently, I saw in GenForum, as I recall, that another relative, Mary B. Knox who m. McCamey Clark Alexander, son of Stephen Alexander, Jr., and Martha Montgomery of Mecklenburg Co., NC, listed John and Jean (nee) Knox as her parents, and it is proven.  [PRB NOTE:  This looks like confusion with the Jane Bell Knox who m. John Knox, son of Robert and Mary (Ewart) Knox]

 

There was a statement that her uncle was Allison Knox. It is possible that confusion has arisen over brothers John and Allison Knox and who m. whom. I would love to find a connection between Mary B. Knox of McCamey and Mary Ann Knox of Moses Shelby. Both are relatives. I see more and more crosslinking.

 

McCamey is descendant from aunt Isabella Shelby who m. Stephen Winslow Alexander, and also from the fact that Stephen is from James and I am from Samuel, sons of Rev. James A. Alexander, etc. Likewise, another aunt, Susannah Polk Alexander, m. Dr. Evan Shelby, parents of above aunt Isabella Shelby, and they are the parents of Moses Shelby who m. Mary Ann Knox...ancestors of Sen. Richard

Shelby of AL.

 

Another aunt, Susannah Shelby, sister of Isobella, is also my direct line Alexander grandmother by m. Daniel Alexander, nephew of above Susannah Polk Alexander Shelby. Strange as it may seem, her mother, Susannah Polk Alexander, is also my grandmother of yore! My Alexander aunt, and my Shelby grandmother! Her husband, Dr. Evan Shelby, is my Shelby grandfather. At Susannah Polk Alexander's ancestral level, I have over 16,000 grand parents. Each of us has 4. Level 2, there are 8; 3, 32; 4, 128; etc. And in 6 generations, I have only 7 Alexanders in my line! We are truly one big family. If any one grandparent was anyone else, I would not be the same person as I am today. I would be at least a little different.

 

Let me know if you figure anything out for Mary Ann Knox, please. Thanks, Mac Alexander.

 

Posted By: Johnnie Mullinax Johnson

 Subject: Re: MOSES SHELBY MAR. MARY ANN KNOX

 Post Date: April 14, 2000 at 15:31:01

 Message URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/shelby/messages/827.html

 Forum: Shelby Family Genealogy Forum

 Forum URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/shelby/

 

Allison and Jane Knox both died in Meck.co North Carolina records there and a lot of probate records in State Archives in NC. I saw them but too many for short visit and a long time ago...

 

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[PRB note:  I think Johnnie is confused about this, but have not been able to locate her to discuss the evidence she believes is in the NC Archives.  I, as well as others, have personally searched the Archives. There are no Allison Knox probate records for Mecklenburg or anywhere else in NC.  I believe the Jane Knox who d. bef Feb 1818 intestate in Mecklenburg, was John Knox's younger sister.  He was her Estate Administrator.]

 

======================================================

 

  Posted By: Ezra McLaurin Alexander

 Subject: Re: MOSES SHELBY MAR. MARY ANN KNOX

 Post Date: April 08, 2000 at 18:02:23

 Message URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/shelby/messages/808.html

 Forum: Shelby Family Genealogy Forum

 Forum URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/shelby/

 

 

 Hi again, Johnnie: I just scrolled down and read another of your responses. It answered

part of my question, i.e., while Alison is the father of Mary Ann (Knox) Shelby, the mother might be 'Jane (nee)'. I.e., might be Jane, and maiden name is unknown if it is.

 

Back to Franck, he is asking if John is Mary Ann Knox's father, and saying that he had an uncle, perhaps, in Franklin Co., MS. This is what initiated my original query that you answered. If this 'John' Knox had a brother Allison in MS, perhaps this John and the father of Mary B. Knox, wife of McCamey

Clark Alexander, might be the same or related. I cannot afford to be bashful in queries. Thanks. Mac.

 

=================================

Posted By: Johnnie Mullinax Johnson

 Subject: Mary Ann Knox of Allison Knox? of NC

 Post Date: August 09, 2000 at 12:00:21

 Message URL: http://www.genforum.com/knox/messages/1184.html

 Forum: Knox Family Genealogy Forum

 Forum URL: http://www.genforum.com/knox/

 

 

One of our Moses Shelby married Mary Ann Knox whose parents, re memory, was Allison and Jane Knox of around Charlotte, Meck, NC...do you know this Knox family...Allison died and Moses was executor for widow...then she married a brother of Allison Knox...  Ring any bells???

 

[6/01/2008 - PRB note...I have not been able to locate records at the NC Archives that fit what is described here... What did she find that is not missing????]

 

 

=====================================================

 

Posted By: Johnnie Mullinax Johnson

 Subject: Re: Knox - Shelby mar. bef. 1810 Meck. NC

 Post Date: August 09, 2000 at 12:09:42

 Message URL: http://www.genforum.com/knox/messages/1185.html

 Forum: Knox Family Genealogy Forum

 Forum URL: http://www.genforum.com/knox/

 

 

Here I am again...and in the Knoxes!!! I researched some of this as connected to a Moses Shelby & I was to but which one...the quandry over which Knox Mary Ann was from is that her father was Allison and then her mother married his brother after Allisons death...got this in Raleigh's State Archives... there are a bunch of estate papers for Jane re Allison and Mary Ann Knox's husband Moses Shelby is the administrator/exe. of his estate...

 

=========================================================

Posted By: Franck Shelby

 Subject: SHELBY's in Dallas Co., AL. 1830 - 1900

 Post Date: August 05, 2001 at 16:48:56

 Message URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/shelby/messages/1665.html

 Forum: Shelby Family Genealogy Forum

 Forum URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/shelby/

 

 

 Published by Central AL. Genealogical Society - 1989

            Spouse DOB

Shelby, Cornelia (Bradford) August 29, 1856

Shelby, Eloise August 30, 1860

Shelby, Inez Cook September 7, 1894

Shelby, John R. Feb. 14, 1839

Shelby, Joseph Nov. 10, 1823

Shelby, Margaret Ann (Porter)Jan 12, 1851

Shelby, Margaret E. Aug 26, 1860

Shelby, Margaret (Bradford) May 16, 1854

Shelby, Martha Dec 20, 1856

Shelby, Mary May 25, 1825

Shelby, Mary (wo of Moses) May 28, 1785 *

Shelby, Nancy C. Morrow (wo of J.H. Shelby)

Aug 13, 1828

Shelby, Prudence M. (wo Dan) Aug 7, 1817

Shelby, Quintilla Nov 18, 1854

Shelby, T. D. 1851

Shelby, William A. 1858

Shelby, Zena H. Nov 22, 1862

 

* My line

 

Any help appreciated with this community or Perry, Hale or Sumter Co., AL.

 

=======================================================================

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=sassytazzy2&id=I12167

 

ID: I89488256

Name: Moses SHELBY

Given Name: Moses

Surname: Shelby

Sex: M

Birth: Abt. 1784 in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina

Death: Abt. 1825 in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina

 

Father: Evan SHELBY b: 1748 in Hunts Cabin, Frederick County, Maryland

Mother: Susannah Polk ALEXANDER b: 1752 in North Carolina

 

Marriage 1 Mary Ann KNOX

Married: Bef. 1810

Children

 David Daniel SHELBY

-----------

ID: I12168

Name: Mary Ann Knox

Sex: F

Death: in Dallas Co., AL 1

 

Marriage 1 Moses Shelby b: CA 1784 in Mecklenburg Co., NC

Married: < 1810

Children

 David Daniel Shelby

------------

ID: I12334

Name: David Daniel Shelby

Sex: M 1

 

Father: Moses Shelby b: CA 1784 in Mecklenburg Co., NC

Mother: Mary Ann Knox

 

Marriage 1 Prudence Morrison Alexander

 

 

 

========================================================

This file says Samuel Knox/Mary Luckie are Mary Ann's parents...

 

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2708562&id=I195

 

Lynchpins

Entries: 432    Updated: Sat Nov 1 16:46:21 2003    Contact: Billy Lynch 

 

--------

ID: I195

Name: Mary Ann KNOX

Sex: F

Birth: MAY 1785

Death: 27 MAY 1855

Change Date: 15 MAY 2002 at 02:30:58

 

Father: Samuel KNOX

Mother: Mary LUCKIE b: 1 MAR 1756

 

Marriage 1 Moses SHELBY

Children

 Ann Salina (Eleanor) SHELBY b: 27 NOV 1817

--------

ID: I201

Name: Samuel KNOX

NSFX: Sr.

Title: Sr.

Sex: M

Change Date: 15 MAY 2002 at 02:35:42

 

Father: John KNOX b: 1708 in Scotland

Mother: Jean GARCY

 

Marriage 1 Mary LUCKIE b: 1 MAR 1756

Children

 Mary Ann KNOX b: MAY 1785

 

 

=========================================================

http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:3089848&id=I601668859

 

ID: I601668859

Name: Mary Ann KNOX

Given Name: Mary Ann

Surname: Knox

Sex: F

Birth: 05-28-1785 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

Death: 05-27-1855 in Plantersville,Alabama

Note: buried Mount Pleasant Church Cemetery 22 miles North of Selma, Alabama

 

Father: Allison KNOX

Mother: Jane UNKNOWN

 

Marriage 1 Moses A. SHELBY b: ?-?-1780 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

Children

 James Madison SHELBY b: 01-18-1843 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 Winfield M."Winnefred" SHELBY b: ?-?-1810 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 Smith SHELBY b: ?-?-1811 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 John Rufus SHELBY b: ?-?-1813 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 David Daniel SHELBY b: 01-12-1815 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 Elenor Selenia SHELBY b: 11-27-1817 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 Samuel SHELBY b: 05-14-1821 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 Joseph Theodore SHELBY b: 11-10-1823 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolia

 Thomas A. SHELBY b: 05-25-1825 in Mecklenburg County,North Carolina

 

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