Exchange of e-mail queries concerning the origin of Sebastian Van Kortrijk from the year 1999. Greetings, Has anyone ever posted an enquiry in regard to the Sebastian Van Kortrijk family to the Belgium-Roots-L I am looking for my ancestor Sebastian's wife as well as for his parents. My ancestor Sebastian was born in 1586 in Kortrijk, Belgium (West Flanders). He was a Walloon. He moved (fled ?) to Leerdam, Holland, in about 1615. He had two known sons, Jan Bastiansen, born 1618, and Michiel "Chiel" Bastiansen, born 1620. Jan and Michiel were married in Holland and had children. The names of I need the names of Sebastian's parents and wife. How do I begin my search? Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. Best to you all, Jean Boutcher Washington, D.C. sealover2@juno.com Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:01:36 +0200 From: schoovjose Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Sebastiaen Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Yep ! Is Sebastian the firstname or the surname ? Thought it was VAN KORTRIJK the surname... Jose Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 21:43:13 EDT From: jean boutcher Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Sebastian Van Kortrijk Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Hi, Jose, His first name was Sebastian. His surname was Van Kortrijk. FIRST GENERATION I. Sebastian Van Kortrijk born 1586 in Kortrijk, Belgium died in Leerdam, Holland, before 1663. Wife's name not known. Had two sons, Jan and Michel Wife's name not known. Had two sons, Jan and Michel SECOND GENERATION: II. Jan Sebastiansen (""Bastiansen"") (my ancestor) born 1618 Leerdam, NL died after 1677 NYC married in Holland (wife's name unknown) Had four children: IV. Cornelis, V.Hendrik, VI. Laurens, VII.Isabella (all born in Beeste, NL) Emigrated to NYC 1663 III. Michiel "Chiel" Sebastiansen (""Bastiansen"") b. 1618 Leerdam, NL d. after 1677 NYC married in NL (wife's name not known) all children were born in NL VIII. Reyer, IX. Metje, X.Annetje, XI. Sebastian, XII.Aefie all children were born in NL VIII. Reyer, IX. Metje, X.Annetje, XI. Sebastian, XII.Aefie The second generation adopted the surname "VAN KORTRIJK." Later, it was spelled as Kortright, Courtright, Cortreght in different regions in the USA. My ancestor spelled the surname as "Kortright." IV. Cornelis Kortright's great-great granddaughter Elisabeth Kortright was married to James Monroe, then Ambassador to Paris, France, and then the president of the United States. I do not know why Sebastian moved to Leerdam, NL, from Kortrijk. A history book on New York Belgian settlers says that Sebastian's two sons Jan and Michiel were Walloons. Do you think that Sebastian's father's name was "Jan" because Sebastian's older son's name was "Jan" ??? Is it possible that Sebastian was baptised as Roman Catholic because Sebastian's older son's name was "Jan" ??? Is it possible that Sebastian was baptised as Roman Catholic in Kortrijk in 1586? Any theory? Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:29:36 +0200 From: schoovjose Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Sebastian Van Kortrijk Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Well Jean, Now, I undesrtand a little more. When he was in Kortrijk, he was not "van" Kortrijk. He was just "van" when in Holland. But he was VAN KORTRIJK in Kortrijk if he was the Lord of Kortrijk. See what I am trying to explain ? Our dear Georges, or Luc, or any good writer in English, will certainly See what I am trying to explain ? Our dear Georges, or Luc, or any good writer in English, will certainly explain the difference more better than me. The theory about "Jan", is correct...I doubt there is Church registers for that periode. Now, you have to try in the "schepen register", "notaris archives", a.s.o. to find new things back in the years... The real difficult part on the search is now on your desk ! Good luck and keep the fun. Jose Merci beaucoup d'avance. -----Message d'origine----- De : Beernaert Ivan : BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com De : Beernaert Ivan : BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Date : jeudi 5 aot 1999 22:37 Objet : Sebastiaen hi, I hope someday you have luck and find an act of marriage, death, or orphanage in the region of Leerdam where is mentioned the familyname of Sebastian. Without that familyname it is useless to begin a research in the archives of the city of Kortrijk. Even if the parisch records are old enough you still need a familyname. For research in the orphan acts you need also a surname. The only hope could be an condamnation for beiing of the 'wrong' religion at that time. But I have no idea where to find it. I know there where made transcriptions that time. But I have no idea where to find it. I know there were made transcriptions on the acts of the Blood Council of Alva (the spanish governor) Or maybe the chuch of Leerdam has notes on emmigration. Therefore I suggest to contact genealogists in Nederland. greatings, Ivan Beernaert e-mail: ivan.beernaert@ping.be Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:50:18 EDT From: jean boutcher Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Belgian area Most-Wanted Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com The origins of my ancestor, Sebastian VAN KORTRIJK (Kortright, Courtright, Cortright, Cortrecht) were rooted in Kortrijk, Belgium, before 1615. Jean BOUTCHER Washington, D.C. sealover@juno.com Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:39:04 +0100 From: Picavet Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Sebastian Van Kortrijk Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Further to Jos's remark on the VAN family name. In 1586 people in this part of the world generally had already fixed family names that were transfered from father to son (and daughter). In large parts of the northern Lower Countries though, where Leerdam is situated, people did not have fixed family names yet. So, imagine that Sebastian was born in Kortrijk in 1586, and that his father's name was PICAVET (or whatever family name, but not SCHOOVAERTS, because they didn't live in that area). He would be baptized as Sebastian PICAVET (or whatever). Sebastian then moved to Leerdam. People would ask where he came from: "Ick ben van Kortrijk" -- "I am from Kortrijk", and that is how he was to be known there, and VAN KORTRIJK eventually became the family's name. I am not sure if this is true for your VAN KORTRIJK, but the fact that I describe here was quite common. As Jos suggested, a family living in Kortrijk would not normally get the name VAN KORTRIJK -- everybody there was from Kortrijk. A family leaving a place could get the name of the place. An exception: a guy who was the lord of a place could adopt the name of the place as his family name. I hope I explained it well? Georges PICAVET | Listowner BELGIUM-ROOTS-L | http://belgium.rootsweb.com/ BELGIUM ROOTS Guidelines: http://belgium.rootsweb.com/belgium_roots_l.html Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:42:43 +0200 From: Luc Matthijs To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Sebastian Van Kortrijk Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com The theory about "Jan", is correct...I doubt there is Church registers for that periode. Now, you have to try in the "schepen register", "notaris archives", a.s.o. to find new things back in the years... The baptism registers for the parish St Maartens (Kortrijk) do exist from 1578 on, The baptism registers for the parish St Maartens (Kortrijk) do exist from 1578 on, but their is a catch: - verify on the LDS site, but my list (1985) indicates that they are not microfilmed - the originals are archived in the "Rijksarchief Kortrijk" And more dangerous: Kortrijk was also a castelany, as the "Land van Waas". So it could be that he said "ik ben van Kortrijk" but meant "ik ben van de streek van Kortrijk". Ex: I did grew up in Lochristi, 10 km E from Gent. I do still say to someone who's not from the province East-Flanders that I'm from [the region of] Gent. Jose -----Message d'origine----- De : jean boutcher : BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Date : vendredi 6 aot 1999 3:49 Objet : Re: Sebastian Van Kortrijk Greetings, Luc MATTHIJS mailto:luc.matthijs@skynet.be -----Message d'origine----- De : Picavet : BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Date : vendredi 6 aot 1999 18:39 : BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Date : vendredi 6 aot 1999 18:39 Objet : Re: Sebastian Van Kortrijk At 02:43 +0100 06-08-1999, jean boutcher wrote: So, imagine that Sebastian was born in Kortrijk in 1586, and that his father's name was PICAVET (or whatever family name, but not SCHOOVAERTS, because they didn't live in that area). He would be baptized as Sebastian PICAVET (or whatever). (If you are so sure, it is a confirmation that SCHOOVAERTS don't come from S'GOVAERT's (dubbel genitive form) There were surely GOVAERT people in THAT area !) About PICKAVET, it come from PIQUE HAVET... two French/Walloons words :-) Jose About PICKAVET, it come from PIQUE HAVET... two French/Walloons words :-) Jose An exception: a guy who was the lord of a place could adopt the name of the place as his family name. I hope I explained it well? (Surely Mylord. You are the best.) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:49:25 +0200 From: Beernaert Ivan Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: jan sebastianson Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 01:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] hi, sorry for the Nederlanders, but they seems to been much later in giving family-names then the Flemisch people did. Flemisch surnames are most older then 1400. In Netherland since the French Revolution, if my information is correct. Before that they gave the name of the father plus -son as a family-name. If correct. Before that they gave the name of the father plus -son as a family-name. If in one village there where more Jan Janssoone they gave them a surname like Jan Janssoone Opden Dijk and Jan Janssoone De Zwarte. I have knowledge of a identical story of a family, now called VAN GESSEL, who moved tho Netherland during the Religious Wars (1560-1600) and it is in the 3-th generation that the surname VAN GESSEL occurs. That story with the VAN KORTRIJK story seems to me the giving of a new name. you wrote >> the second generation adapted the surname I have checked some sources: De Parchemynen index van de Kortrijkse Weeskamer, The index to-find-the-way of the Orphan Chambre of Kortrijk (city and 'kasselrij'. These books starts 1420 and cover the city and dependences. not any name that is similar to Van Kortrijk, Curtricke or so Woordenboek van de familienamen by Frans Debrabander (Book on familynames in Belgium and Northern France) not any name similar Belgium and Northern France) not any name similar Index on the Marriage acts Kortrijk, Sint-Maarten (starts about 1620) not any Van Kortrijk Could not check the birth-index. I will not say that these surname doesn't exist. But it seems rare. Reaction to the mentioning of lordship. A lord was owner of a place or land. Often he had the surname VAN THAT PLACE. Like in Van Gistel, Van Walleghem, Vander Ghinste. Those places where gifted by the king to lower lord and so on. The difference with cities is that they where somewhere independant, they had priviliges since 1200. Therefore man couldn't be lord (and owner) of the city of Brugge, Kortrijk. If in the case of a old city a surname is used like Van Brussel, Van Oudenaerde, it is more likely that it was adopted by a person whe came from there after he moved somewhere else. Last note. I suggest to contact a Historian, or University and ask for specialists on the 1560-1600 periode with knowledge on emigrations, condamnations. Or contact the Archive of the City of Kortrijk. hope you my find something, Ivan Beernaert, Sint-Andries (Brugge), Belgi mailto:ivan.beernaert@ping.be researching any BEERNAERT, BERNAERT, .. originated from Flanders, Belgium. Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:45:56 +0200 From: schoovjose Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: jan sebastianson Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 06:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com -----Message d'origine----- De : Beernaert Ivan À : BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Date : samedi 7 août 1999 10:48 Objet : jan sebastianson Date : samedi 7 août 1999 10:48 Objet : jan sebastianson hi, they had priviliges since 1200. Therefore man couldn't be lord (and owner) of the city of Brugge, Kortrijk. If in the case of a old city a surname is used like Van Brussel, Van Oudenaerde, it is more likely that it was adopted by a person whO came from there after he moved somewhere else. (not necesseraly adopted, just "coming from" Brugge, Kortrijk, Brussel or Houtsiplout) ( and the "owner" was often "lord of" whithout to be really a "noble man". No nobility with only the title) Last note. I suggest to contact a Historian, or University and ask for specialists on the 1560-1600 periode with knowledge on emigrations, Last note. I suggest to contact a Historian, or University and ask for specialists on the 1560-1600 periode with knowledge on emigrations, condamnations. (But, in that case, good luck to get a reply. Some time you get it, but often...They have no time, better things to do...) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 13:03:12 EDT From: jean boutcher Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Population in Kortrijk in 1588 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com What was the population in Kortrijk in 1588? Would it be much easier to search for a marriage certificate and a birth certificate for my ancestor in Kortrijk who was born in 1588 if the percentage of population was much smaller at that time? For example, would it be easier for me to find a birth certificate for someone with a rare name "Sebastian" than with a common name "Jean" ??? Thanks in advance. Regards, Jean Boutcher Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:00:34 +0200 From: Beernaert Ivan Reply-To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Jan son of Sebastian Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com hi, I admire your persistance fo find a clue for you ancestor, without surname, but later VAN KORTRIJK. You can look for births of Sebastiaen. Then eliminate the surnames (or some households) who disapear in the records. I suggest beginning with the indexes or Tables (Tafels op de records. I suggest beginning with the indexes or Tables (Tafels op de Parochieregisters) on microfilm. Kortrijk was for that time a big city. Baptism records Kortrijk Sint-Maertens-church start in 1578. baptism 1578-1622 (5 volumes on microfilm) Mariage records Kortrijk Sint-Maerten starts in 1601 Records for Kortrijk, Sint-Michiels, unknown to me Records for Kortrijk, Onze-Lieve-Vrouw, unknown to me. I also suggest you write a snail-mail to VVF Kortrijk p.a./ Johan Roelstraete Kransvijver 41 B - 8801 Kortrijk Belgium B - 8801 Kortrijk Belgium phone: 'country code' 056/ 35 07 11 Johan Roelstraete is the author of the book 'Handleiding voor Genealogisch onderzoek in Vlaanderen' or Manuel for genealogical research in Flanders. Therefore he nows very well the sources for Kortrijk. greatings, Ivan Beernaert, Sint-Andries (Brugge), België mailto:ivan.beernaert@ping.be researching any BEERNAERT, BERNAERT, .. originated from Flanders, Belgium. To: mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Sebastian Van Kortrijk X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:23:48 EDT Hi Cousin Marvin, Besides myself, there seems to be only two serious researchers who search for the truth as to who Sebastian's parents were. Others treat the geanlogy of Sebastian as a fun hobby and put wrong names which I found on two webpages. I do not understand why there is any abstracts for someone who was one of the wealthiest in possession of land in NY. Did he die intestate? Had he made a will, the name of his wife would appear there. I am very much doubtful about the authenticity of the ancestal file: http://pedigree.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/pedview.d11? Ind=4655&File=16823 which shows the pedigree as follows: Jan Bastiaansen Van Kortryk, son of Sebastian Van Kortryk, son of Sebastian y Cortez. Jan Bastiaansen Van Kortryk m. Iolanta De La Montagne b. Belgium 1620 daughter of Jan de la Montagne and Rachel de Forest, daughter of Jesse de Forrest and Marie DuClux. A researcher named Cindy Owens theorised that Sebastian may have been a mercenary soldier and chose to stay in Belgium. I directed my enquiries to Belgium-L and Gen-BeneLux-L. Negative! They said there was no way to trace Sebastian's parentage not only because he lacked the patronymic but also because the given name "Sebastian" was quite popular in Belgium. They said many children were named for a Belgian saint, St. Sebastian the Archer. That was before the religious war. Furthermore, it would be much harder to trace Sebastian in a city as big as Kortrijk. But: I do not give up! I have an idea. Why do we not write to the Walloon society in Leiden asking for Sebastian Van Kortrijk who might have died in or before 1663 (he was born 1586). It would be much easier for the society to trace if we would give the society the names of Sebastian's children and grandchildren. We would also tell the society that Jan and Michiel emigrated to the new world. Maybe through the Walloon society would we have better luck in locating the parentage for Sebastian in Kortrijk ---------or a hamlet called Kortrijk in Brussels. A hamlet? You may ask. Yes, that is what I was told. Not only that, but also one above Leerdam! I suspect that a group of people from Kortrijk fled to a town in Holland from Belgium, so the town was named in honor of them. Quite possible becasue Julius Caesar never touched Kortrijk, Holland. Kortrijk (Courtrai), Belgium -- not Holland -- was named by the Romans. So why Kortrijk in Holland? For Sebastian and others, obviously. Let us find out! I was in Spain and on Ibiza twice, but I did not do any research there. I travelled from Paris to Madrid by train. Then from Madrid to Valencia . Then to Ibiza . Then to Barcelona en route to Nice. Any thoughts about writing to Leiden? Regards, Jean Boutcher From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:41:34 EDT Hi Cousins Ellie and Marvin -- I see a hint, but am not sure and need your thought about that: Is it possible that those with ( ? ) are brothers -- or cousins -- of our ancestor Jan Bastiansen and Michiel Bastiansen? Regards, Jean Ship: "De Bonte Koe" Captain: Jan Bergen Date: April 16, 1663 Passengers as follows: --Pierre Richard of Paris, France. -- (**) Jan BASTIANSEN from Leerdam, South Holland with wife and four children, 19, 15, 12, and 6. -- ( * ) Michiel BASTIANSEN from Leerdam, South Holland, wife, and four children, 8, 9, 5, and 1. --( ? ) Matthys BASTIANSEN Van den Perck and daughter. --( ? ) Theunis BASTIANSEN Cool and child aged 8. -- Marretje Theunis from Beeste, Gelderland, Holland. -- Staes de Groot from Tricht, Gelderland, Holland. -- Elsje Barents, wife. -- Jan Laurens from Schoonderwoert, Gelderland, Holland. -- Joris Adriaensen from Leerdam, South Holland -- Hendrix Cornelisz from New Netherland (New York) Source: Ship Passenger Lists: New York and New Jersey (1600-1825). Thank you. Best regards, Jean To: mdcourt@softcom.net Cc: Joelellie@aol.com Subject: Kortrijk, Holland X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:19:07 EDT I re-read my mesage sent to you yesterday and realised that I had forgotten to tell you that Kortrijk is situated between Amsterdam and Utrecht. It is about 10 miles north of Leerdam. It is not on the web, but I did find it in different international atlases, including National Geographic Atlas. Regards, Jean From: Joelellie@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:48:09 EDT Subject: What's my line? To: mdcourt@softcom.net CC: sealover2@juno.com X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 I would gather from your address that you are a Courtright looking into your family history. My great grandfather was Calvin Whitfield Courtright, son of John Jacob Courtright of Fairfield County, Ohio. I've been working on the lineage with second cousins whom I discovered through the Bloom Township Website (http://www.geocities.com/shellyinoh/gene.html). Charles McKinley, Gordon Courtright and Ken Courtright have put together over 3000 descendants of Jan and Michiel Van Kortryk in their data base. Charles did all of the recent census data for Bloom Twnshp. I am in their debt for information, but am more interested in ferreting out the (possibly spurious) connection to Spain which my grandmother always doubted. I suspect that the "information" that the 19th century Courtrights relied upon was, in fact, only Abbott and Dudley and Pardon and Harriet Head and they relied upon each other. Dudley printed in his book letters from researchers, which was comforting. The others, I think, only quoted. And then there was Samuel and his unbelievable pamphlet. I would love to know what lines you each are descended from, though it doesn't matter. Your interest in the research is enough for me. Ellie Pelcyger Hendrick Jansen (van Beest) Kortright & Catherine Hansen Cornelius Hendricksen &Christina Rooskrans Johannes Courtright & Margaret Dennemerken John (Johannes) Courtright & Elizabeth Grubb John Jacob Courtright & Margaret Crist Calvin Whitfield Courtright & Sarah Albach Katherine Louise Courtright & Wm. E. Simonds Katherine Simonds & R. H. Wensberg Eleanor Katherine Wensberg & Wm Coben & Joel Pelcyger To: joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Montagne X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:14:22 EDT Hi Cousins! I am on my way to the Library of Congress on the Capitol Hill to search for the de la Montagne to see if a Montagne member named Iolanta de la Montagne born in Belgium in 1620 was married to Sebastian's son Jan Bastiansen. Maybe there is a copy of the Montagne genealogy book. Also Riker's History of Harlem. Cheska Wheatley, I was told, is an authority on the Kortright line. She has omitted the wife for Jan. Will notify you if unverified about Iolanta Montagne. Regards, Jean Regards, To: joelellie@aol.com Cc: mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: RE: Spanish Mercenary Soldiers X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 14:23:42 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Luc Matthijs" To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Spanish Mercenary Soldiers Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:37:07 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01bef569$c6e7be00$0608690a@pc6> A period of the Belgian history in the 16th century is known as the "Spanish Fury" when unpaid mercenaries of the Spanish Army where looting, burning, raping ... in the Low Countries. It's sure that some of the current inhabitants will have those soldiers as ascendants (or natural/illegal fathers). But most parish records are starting after that period, their was a lot of migration, etc ... So I don't think that some exact statistics can be made. But it's possible for some, if judicial records or other traces still exist. Greetings, Luc MATTHIJS mailto:luc.matthijs@skynet.be -----Original Message----- From: jean boutcher [mailto:sealover2@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 6:16 PM To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Spanish Mercenary Soldiers writes: As you will know Carlos I (Emperor Charles V for us) was born in Flanders (Ghent) and lived some time as a child in the Leuven castle. On the other hand we have many spanish names still now, like the well known family Arrazola de Oñate for exemple. . Spanish soldiers were in Flanders, too. I wonder what was the percentage of Spanish mercenary soldiers who chose to settle there and married Flemish women. Thanks. Regards, Jean To: joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Re: Bastiana X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 00:54:36 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Sheri Bashor" To: "jean boutcher" Subject: Re: Bastiana Dear Jean, Hi ~ you wrote:=20 Do you, by any chance, know what year your ancestor went to Portugal? Sorry ~ No I do not know what year they went to Portugal. Right now I am = trying to connect this family together (Spain,Portugal, and Flores). The = only year I have is approx. 1700's or maybe even the late 1600's they = went to the island of Flores in the Azores. you wrote: I would greatly appreciate learning more about your ancestor Bastiana. Please contact me privately. Thanks much in advance. What you have to say interests me very much ~ my ggggg grandfather's = name was Francisco Joseph Bastiana it is said his mother was Sebastiana = Pimentel and her husband's name was Matteus Furtado ~ a relative has = given me this information so I am not sure if this is true. I am still = researching this... What I do know is that on the island of Flores ~=20 Francisco Joseph Bastiana married Joaquina do Nascimento and they had a = son named Francisco Joseph Bastiana who was also my gggg grandfather he = married Francisca Luisa Pimentel Amaro and they had 8 children. One of = their children was my ggg grandfather Antonio Joseph Bastiana he had a = brother named Francisco Joseph Bastiana.=20 Antonio came to the USA in the 1840's landing in San Francisco, CA gold = mining. Antonio dropped Bastiana and used Joseph as his last name. He developed a disease called Joseph Disease this is a genetic = neurological disease. My gg grandmother had this disease, her daughter = had this disease, my grandfather had this disease, my dad had this = disease and now my sister has this disease. Many people have been = misdiagnosed with Parkinson Disease or MS when in actuality they have = Machado Joseph Disease. Unfortunately many people do not want to admit they have any defect in = their background so I have run into a lot of resistance. I have been = told personally by Dr. James Guill who wrote the book "History of the = Azores Islands" that the Joseph Bastiana (surname) family is related to = the Abravanel family. I have been told that my family is of Jewish = origin ~ I believe my family is of the "anusim" if you are familiar with = this... I am hoping to go to Portugal, Azores and maybe even Spain to research = the Bastiana name in April or May ~ I have to first start in the Azores = to begin the connection... But in the mean time I plan to visit a Family = Research Center (LDS) and see what I can find.=20 According to the Doctors that I have talked with and some research that = I have done ~ Bastiana is the shortened version of Sebastian ~ I have = also been told we have some type of connection to a family name of = Bastian ~ I also found out that in the New Century Cyclopedica of Names = that "Baza" Spain used to be called "Bastiana" Spain. So far that is = about all the information I have... I hope some of this has been of interest to you.. I look forward to hearing from you ~ Sincerely, Sheri=20 To: joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Re: Spanish Mercenary Soldiers X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 00:22:59 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Decambrai@aol.com To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Spanish Mercenary Soldiers Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:31:03 EDT I've found Spanish ancestors in the Brussels area, but it was the children of the soldiers that I've found in my ancestry that married the local people. Almost all my soldiers ancestors had their Spanish born wives with them. The name spelling change sometimes,too. For instance, my ancestors had the name Chimines, which was changed from Jiminez. Janine To: joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:26:43 EDT I would like to share with you the following email. Regards, Jean . From: "J. H. R. Bastiaans" <0bastiaans01@flevonet.nl . Hi Jean,I wouldn't know te be exact. I traced ny ancestors back to Sebatianus Arts Bastiaans, born before 1780 in Nuenen -county Nuenen, Gerwen en Nederwetten- (close to Oss in the Eastern part of Noord Brabant).Before that I'm still searching. Bastiaans is a very widely used name in Noord Brabant and Zeeland.I'll keep your mailadress for future reference.RegardsHans Bastiaanshttp://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/6506jean boutcher schreef:> --------- Begin forwarded message ----------> From: "J.H.R. Bastiaans" <0bastiaans01@flevonet.nl>> To: GEN-BENELUX-L@rootsweb.com---------- lot of feedback. Could you ask them how one could trace Sebastian's ancestry when Sebastian lacked a patronymic. Strangely, Jan did not name a son in honor of his father. Michiel did name his son "Bastian." Jan gave his daughter a name "Beeltjie", short name for either Isabella or Arabella. It is possible that she was named for Sebastian's wife. . I moved to Washington, D.C. in 1983 from Brooklyn, NY. "Kortright" was spelled in my father's paternal family. I have become curious about Sebastian for two reasons: (1) Why does he lack the patronymic? (2) Riker says that "Sebastian" is a royal Spanish name. . <> . See my chart below. Do you have the parentage for his wife Catherine Hansen? All books when in reference to Catherine use a word, "probably" daughter of Hans Webber and Elsje Pieters. Catherine's marriage date Dec. 14, 1672 does not appear in RDC Records (see www.rootsweb.com/~ote/rdcmarr1672.htm. Nor does her birthdate 1648 appear in RDC Baptisms. Wonder if Gordon Courtright has more info??? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, My Kortright lineage chart shows as follows: 1. Sebastian Van Kortrijk + Unknown 2. Jan Bastiansen Kortright + Unknown 3. Hendrick Jansen Kortright---+---Catherine Hansen Webber 4. Jan Hendricksen Kortright - Maria W. Vredenburgh 5. Apollonia J. Kortright - Johannes Jurriaen Van Westphalia The marriage of Westphalia ends the Kortright line. I do not think our Sebastian was a mercenary soldier. Leerdam (Prince's Land purchased by William of Orange) would not welcome any Spanish enemy. If Sebastian or his father came from Spain, he would have to come to Belgium through Portugal (travelling by sea was much easier than on land). Regards, Jean To: Glcourtr@aol.com, Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Good News for you! X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:16:25 EDT Hendrick Kortright-Catherine Hansen's marriage record has been found at last! See below. --Regards, Jean --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "David L. Lear" To: Dutch-Colonies-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: RDC Marriages Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:19:35 -0400 Subject: RDC Marriages Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 01:11:20 EDT From: jean boutcher To: Dutch-Colonies-L@rootsweb.com Hi everybody! "Records of the Reformed Dutch Church in New York - Marriages" on the www.rootsweb.com/~ote/rdcmarr1672. htm only shows marriages dates between January 14, 1672, and November 17, 1672. The missing date is December 14,1672, >becauseRiker's History of Harlem [1904] and all Kortright >genealogy books give December 14, 1672, as the marriage date for Catherine Hansen and Hendrick Jansen Kortright. The wedding took place at Esopus. Is the missing date due to illegibility or is a page, which the date was recorded, damaged ? Thank you in advance. Regards, Jean ------------ I, too, had puzzled over the source of this marriage record until I came across an article in the 1897 "Year Book of the Holland Society of New York" entitled "Names of Dutch Settlers in Esopus." At that time Mr. Dingman Versteeg was in the process of translating the old Court Records of Wildwyck and he collected the list of settlers whose names appeared in the court records and indicated the year in which the individuals were first named. The article is on pages 117-132. There is also a list of marriages recorded in the court records, five in all, only the first of which is found in the church records of Kingston. They are: June 6, 1667. Cornelis Aertsen Fynhout, young man, and Neeltje Aertsen, maiden, daughter of the late Aert Jacops. Jan. 28, 1668. Jacobus Coenraets Van Elmendorp and Grietie Aertsen, daughter of the late Aert Jacops. June 3, 1670. Banns registered: Arendt Jansen Van Naerden and Maria Biljouw, of Leyden, being authorized by Lowies Du Booys, uncle of the maiden. December 14, 1672. Banns registered for Hendrick Jansen, young man, born at Beest in Gelderland, and Catharina Hansen, born in New Amsterdam. December 7, 1672. Banns registered: Tomas Teunissen Quick, born at New Amsterdam, and Rynbregh Jurriaensen, born at Wildwyck. Note that the December 14, 1672 date for Hendrick Jansen and Catharina Hansen is not the marriage date. The record does not indicate whether this was the first, second, or third publication of the Banns. They would have been married within a short period after that date. David Lear To: Glcourtr@aol.com, joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: HANS WEBER X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 00:14:37 EDT I have searched for all children born to Hans Webber http://www.altlaw.com/edball.dutchbap.htm from 1639 to 1650, but I could find no Catherine Hansen who is reported to have been born in 1648. It does not necessarily mean that Hans Webber -- Eljsie Pieters of our Catherine Hansen. Maybe she had not been taken for Baptism for some reason or other. It is a small wonder that Riker and other Kortright compilers say that Catherine is «« probably »» a daughter of Hans Webber. But: I have another problem. Catherine's not naming her daughter «« Eljse »» for her mother *may* the Dutch naming pattern. I will show you the names of Hans Webber and Elsje Pieters' children and then compare those names with Catherine - Hendrick Kortright's children's names. ----------HANS WEBBER -- ELSJE PIETERS------ «Baptims at the Reformed Dutch Church of New Amsterdam» 1639-1730 13 Jul 1642: Parent: Hans Nicolaeszen: Child: Laurens 15 Mar 1644: Parent: Hans Nicolaeszen: Child: Nicolaes 20 Aug 1645: Parent: Hans Nicolaes: Child: Nicolaes 2 Dec 1646: Parent: Hans Nicolaeszen: Child: Helena 28 Mar 1649: Parent: Hans Reber: Child: Elsje ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --CATHERINE HANSEN - HENDRICK KORTRIGHT-- 1. Jan, 1674 2. Hendrick, 1677 3. Cornelis, 1680 4. Geertjen, 1682 5. Arie, 1684 6. Antie, 1586 7. Laurens, 1688 8. Jacob, 1692 9. Jannetje, 1694 10. Peter, 1696 11. Catherine, 1699 (1) I have found a documented fact that Catherine was married to Hendrick on Dec. 14, 1672. (2) But we have yet to prove Hans Webber - Elsje Pieters as parents of Catherine. We do not see any child named "Catherine" in Baptism records. (3) We do not see the name "Eljse" in children of Catherine and Hendrick. I may have to post the above to the Dutch-Colonies-List. Maybe some reader come to our aid, who knows? I am curious to find out what made Riker and other Kortright compilers think that Hans Webber - Eljse Pieters as Catherine's parents because we do not see any Baptism record that would show parents' name like above. Wait and see. Regards, Jean From: Glcourtr@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:48:07 EDT Subject: Catherine Hansen Webber To: sealove2@juno.com, Joelellie@aol.com, Silverrag@aol.com CC: mdcourt@softcom.net X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 63 Hi all, Just a short note to all to suggest for Cathertine's Batismal/Christening date and place, why not check out the Harlem, NY Reformed Dutch Church records. I have a Baptismal date of 30 November 1653 at the Harlem RDC Church there. I have has this date and place for many years Just a suggestion for what it is worth. Gordon To: Glcourtr@aol.com, Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net, cindyo@staffnet.com Subject: RE: Kortrijk X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:03:41 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Luc Matthijs" To: "jean boutcher" Subject: RE: Kortrijk Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:15:55 +0200 Hi, The towns KORTRIJK and DUTSEL where in 1795 joined together to form the municipality KORTRIJK-DUTSEL, now part of HOLSBEEK. The St Catharina church goes back to the beginning of the 11th century. It's not because that both KORTRIJK are written the same, that their names do have the same origin. The inhabitants of KORTRIJK (WVL) pronounce the name of their town as KORTRIK (Courtrai), DOORNIK (Tournai), WERVIK, ... in the same region. I think that Frans DE BRABANDERE has the answer about the origin of KORTRIJK-DUTSEL, but I can't contact him (no internet). Their was a major migration (thanks to the Spanish and the Reformation) from the regions of Walloon Flanders, Ieper, Kortrijk, ... to Holland in the second half of the 16th century. And in Holland they where in the way of making new polders. So it's possible that a new town was named after KORTRIJK. BUT if your ancestor settled their, then he could have been named after that DUTCH town, and not the town in WVL. The Dutch didn't give stable surnames before 1810. In that case he could come from anywhere. I know it's frustrating, but the 15th century is a difficult one to jump over. Not many can =proof= an ascendance into the 14th century. Only when they did have titles, ground, ... it's easier. Greetings, Luc MATTHIJS mailto:luc.matthijs@skynet.be -----Original Message----- From: jean boutcher [mailto:sealover2@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 7:16 AM To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Kortrijk Hi to all! I have two questions to ask here. I read "History of The Kortryk Family" about the genealogy of my ancestor Sebastian Van Kortrijk who was born in West Flanders in 1586. It reads: « Kortryk as it is called in Flemish is known as Courtrai. It existed in the time of the Romans under the name of Cortoriacum afterwards' Curtricum and now stands a flourishing manufacturing city of 30,000 inhabitants. » My first question is: Why did they name a city in West Flanders "Kortrijk" and then name a hamlet "Kortrijk" near Brussels? My second question is: Is it true that The Netherlands named a town "Kortrijk" between Amsterdam and Utrecht in honor of people who fled there from Kortrijk, Belgium. It is approximately 10 miles north of Leerdam, NL where my ancestor settled. Thank you very much. Merci beaucoup. Regards, Jean To: Glcourtr@aol.com Cc: joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Re: Catherine Hansen webber X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:12:32 EDT Gordon, It is not possible for our Catherine Hansen to be born in 1653 because Hans Webber died in 1649. Hans Webber's widowed wife Eljse Pieters was remarried to Matthys Capito on August 7, 1650. Three years later, a baby girl was born to Matthys and Elsje Pieters, baptised on November 2, 1653 and was named Elsje in honor of her mother Elsje Pieters. You may confuse Catherine Hansen [Webber] with Catherine Hansen Van Nostrand. The latter who was baptized on Nov. 30, 1653, was daughter of Hans Hansen Van Nostrand of Flatlands, LI, NY (also my ancestor) and second wife Janneken Garrets Van Loon. Catherine Hansen Van Nostrand was married to Lucas Stevense Van Voorhees also of Flatland, LI, NY -- while Catherine Hansen [Webber] was a native of New Amsterdam, NY. All children living in NY were mandated to be baptised in RDC ordered and all parents were mandated to contribute a tithe to the RDC. That is why some people of different religions drifted to other places than NA, LI, and Ulster County. Riker used the word "probably." It means that it was possible for Catherine to be daughter of Webber because Hans Webber lived in New Amsterdam where he worked as master-at-arms at the Fort Amsterdam. It is situated on Manhattan Island near the port on the southern tip. Harlem is also situated on the Manhattan Island -- in the middle northern part (something like 110th Street in today's map). I will email and ask for an opinion of an editor of "New Netherlands Collections" who is an expert on Dutch families about Catherine Hansen's parentage. Maybe she will help hit a brick wall and make a breakhthrough on the Catherine Hansen business. Smile. Will keep you posted. Regards, Jean On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:32:52 EDT Glcourtr@aol.com writes: Jean, In reference to Catherine's Baptism/Christening I have for many years had the Date of 30 November 1653 in Harlem, NY. I rather doubt at the time that it was held in a RDC Church being her parents were from Germany and more than likely held in a Lutheran Church there. Just thought I would offer this to you as well as the others of the family. Sincerely, Gordon To: joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net, Glcourtr@aol.com Subject: : Re: Spanish Mercenary Soldiers X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:52:26 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: To: "jean boutcher" Subject: Re: Spanish Mercenary Soldiers Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:57:49 +0200 Message-ID: <000201bef970$a040b080$448479c3@q5d7e1> Hallo Jean! Here some names from - I think - spanish soldiers in the land van Waas town of Stekene) located between Gent (Gand) and Antwerp. Married in Stekene: 1645 Dominicus Fernandus x Maria Barras 1645 Jacobus Fernandus x Maria de Vega 1645 NN de Badillio x Elisabeth de Castaneba 1648 Petrus Stoop x Antonia Cremonez spanish? 1623 Petrus Carillo x Barbara Stas 1623 Hieronymus Thomaes x Catharina Claessens 1730 Franciscus Tyry x Joanna de Mendoza 1690 Petrus Noe x Marie de Alfonso Why are You so interested in the spanish mercenary soldiers in Flanders? Vriendelijke groeten, Raymond. To: joelellie@aol.com, Glcourtr@aol.com Cc: mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: DOB and POB X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:01:36 EDT Did Gordon give you Catherine Hansen Webber's parentage? >He gave it to me as: Hans Hansen Webber 1620, died Fort Amsterdam, NY, 1649 & >Elsje Pieters Van Hamburg, died in Esophus, NY 1663 ------------------- Do you, by any chance, know the source for Hans Nicolaeszen Webber's birth date and place of birth? Was he born in New York? If so, he may have been son of Wolfert Webber, a descendant of King William of Holland. See www.ancestry.com and type in "Webber". Please let me know about the source. Thanks. P.S. I will send you the names of children of Apollonia Kortright-Johannes Jurriaensen Van Westphalia. Regards, Jean To: Bastin-L@rootsweb.com, Glcourtr@aol.com, Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Jan Bastiansen X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:51:34 EDT Hi Bastins, Bastiansens, & others, I am new to the Bastin-L. I am looking for Jan Bastiansen Van Kortrijk's wife and mother as well as for Jan's father Sebastian's parentage. Sebastian was born in about 1586 in Kortrijk, West Flanders. I do not know the given name of his father because Sebastian's older son Jan Bastiansen used a toponymic name rather than a patronymic name. According to Riker's History of Harlem [1904], Sebastian's parents retired and then moved to Holland to Leerdam (Prince's Land because it was owned by Prince William of Orange) in circa 1615. Sebastian had two known sons Jan and Michiel were born there Leer1618 and 1620 respectively. In 1663, Jan and Michiel emigrated to New Amsterdam with their respective wives and children on the "De Bonte Koe" boat in April 1663. Jan had four children: Cornelis, Hendrick (my ancestor), Laurens, and Isabella Arabella "Beeltjie". Whereas Cornelis' and Hendrick's descendnats adopted "Kortright/ Courtright" as their surname, Michiel followed the Dutch naming pattern by giving one of his sons a name "Bastian" for his grandfather Sebastian. Furthermore, his children used the paternal patronymic "Michielsen." Laurens did the same thing as his uncle Michiel did: he used "Louw" / "Low", a name corrupted from his given name Lauren (pronounced as Louwern plus "sen" whose affix he did not add. I would appreciate someone's explanation about the origin of "Bastin". Thank you very much for your help. Regards, Jean Boutcher To: Glcourtr@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net, Joelellie@aol.com Subject: Meaning of Kortrijk X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:12:26 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Beernaert Ivan" To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Kortrijk Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:26:53 +0200 hi, Jean, Courtrai is the French translation of Kortijk. 8th century: Cororiacensis from the Celtic names 'kortoro' = hypothetic 'omheining' or enclosure, surrounding and acu = place to live. In old flemish (1600) Curtricke. ................................................................................................................... Jean wrote: « Kortryk as it is called in Flemish is known as Courtrai. It existed in the time of the Romans under the name of Cortoriacum afterwards' Curtricum and now stands a flourishing manufacturing city of 30,000 inhabitants. » My first question is: Why did they name a city in West Flanders "Kortrijk" and then name a hamlet "Kortrijk" near Brussels? .................................................................................................................... Kortrijk near Leuven-Brussel was fused in 1795 to one village with Dutsel, now called Kortrijk-Dutsel. for the meaning of the name: cortecle, curiculum = 'hofje' or a kind of surrounded garden I don' know why two places became the same name. Other similarities in Belgium are: Tielt (WestFlanders) and Tielt-Winge (near Leuven), Oostkerke (near Brugge) and Oostkerke (near Diksmuide), Aalst (city in EastFlanders) and Aalst (Limburg), Beveren (near Roeselare West Flanders) Beveren (aan de Ijzer, WestFlanders), Beveren (aan de Leie, near Kortrijk) and Beveren (Beveren-Waas near Sint-Niklaas) I don not know if there is an explanation for it. regards, Ivan Beernaert e-mail: ivan.beernaert@ping.be To: Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net, Glcourtr@aol.com Subject: Re: Names I'm researching X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:55:57 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: jean boutcher To: Dutch-Colonies-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Names I'm researching Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:34:07 EDT Message-ID: <19990910.133424.5527.7.sealover2@juno.com> References: <011b01befb9d$12cfd440$0125a9d8@oemcomputer> Hi, Alison and all, I am researching the names; HANSEN, Hans Hendricks, LOW (Louw,Louwe,Lowe),.... Riker's "History of Harlem" [1904] contains information on the Low Family. Abbott's The Courtright (Kortright) Family [1922] has the 'Laurens Jansen Low' family. Your ancestor's given name "Hans" has caught my eye. I am looking for the parentage of Catherine Hansen who was married to Hendrick Jansen Kortright on December 14, 1672. Because Riker's gives Hans Webber and Elsje Pieters van Hamburg as the " probable " parents, I am continuing searching for her parents. She and Hendrick Jansen Kortright's oldest son is named "Jan" apparently in honor of Hendrick's father Jan Bastiansen, but there is no name "Eljse" in honor of Catherine's "probable" mother Eljse Pieters. Catherine Hansen and Hendrick Jansen Kortright's children as follows: 1. Jan (John), b. 1674, m. Maria W. Vredenburgh (my ancestors) 2. Hendrick, b. 1677, m. Mary De Witt, 1700 3. Cornelius, b. 1680, m. Christina Rosencrans, 1701 4. Geertie, b. 1682, m. Abraham Schut, 1714 5. Arie, b. 1684 6. Antje. b. 1686, m. Jacob Decker 7. Lawrence, b. 1688, m. Sarah Ten Eyck, 1715 8. Jacob, b. 1692 9. Jannetje, b. 1994, m. Hendrick Decker, 1717 10. Peter, b. 1696, m. Marrite Van Garden, 1717 11. Catherine, b. 1699. #1 Jan remarried 1711 Elizabeth Van Kampen. #2 Hendrick remarried 1703/4 Cathryn Crom, widow of Arie Van Etten Thanks much in advance. Regards, Jean To: mdcourt@softcom.net, joelellie@aol.com, Glcourtr@aol.com Subject: Re: Kortrijk X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:11:57 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "schoovjose" To: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Kortrijk Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:30:39 +0200 Message-ID: <01befbc2$f6d16da0$0100007f@localhost> more in etimology : So, in French, the word COURTIL ( in Walloon, Cortil or Corti ) with the meaning of garden... On the picture-site, there are pictures of CORTIL-NOIRMONT ! :-) Jose -----Message d'origine----- De : Beernaert Ivan À : BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Date : jeudi 9 septembre 1999 21:25 Objet : Kortrijk hi, Jean, Courtrai is the French translation of Kortijk. 8th century: Cororiacensis from the Celtic names 'kortoro' = hypothetic 'omheining' or enclosure, surrounding and acu = place to live. In old flemish (1600) Curtricke. « Kortryk as it is called in Flemish is known as Courtrai. It existed in the time of the Romans under the name of Cortoriacum afterwards' Curtricum and now stands a flourishing manufacturing city of 30,000 inhabitants. » My first question is: Why did they name a city in West Flanders "Kortrijk" and then name a hamlet "Kortrijk" near Brussels? Kortrijk near Leuven-Brussel was fused in 1795 to one village with Dutsel, now called Kortrijk-Dutsel. for the meaning of the name: cortecle, curiculum = 'hofje' or a kind of surrounded garden I don' know why two places became the same name. Other similarities in Belgium are: Tielt (WestFlanders) and Tielt-Winge (near Leuven), Oostkerke (near Brugge) and Oostkerke (near Diksmuide), Aalst (city in EastFlanders) and Aalst (Limburg), Beveren (near Roeselare WestFlanders) Beveren (aan de Ijzer, WestFlanders), Beveren (aan de Leie, near Kortrijk) and Beveren (Beveren-Waas near Sint-Niklaas) I don not know if there is an explanation for it. regards, Ivan Beernaert e-mail: ivan.beernaert@ping.be To: Glcourtr@aol.com, Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Query on Jan Bastiansen X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:11:57 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Gary Bastin To: BASTIN-L@rootsweb.com Cc: jean boutcher Subject: Query on Jan Bastiansen Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: The following is in regards to a query on the Flemish side of the family. From the records that have been found to date, the BASTIN surname appears to have originated in England, in or around Cornwall. Records date back to around the 11th Century there with the surname mentioned. Around the 13th century, some of the English BASTINs evidently migrated across the English Channel to Flanders (modern-day Belgium/France). Some of their descendants appear to have migrated further eastward into Germany over the next couple of centuries. As for the original site of the name, David Bastin of Australia has found mention of the name even earlier to Turkey! I haven't seen these records, yet, but there is evidently a connection to very early Christian martyrs according to the records that he has found. Can anyone help Jean Boutcher with the following query? Please respond to both BASTIN-L and to him if you can help! Regards, Gary Bastin, BASTIN-L List Owner ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:51:41 -0700 (PDT) From: jean boutcher To: Bastin-L@rootsweb.com, Glcourtr@aol.com, Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: {not a subscriber} Jan Bastiansen Hi Bastins, Bastiansens, & others, I am new to the Bastin-L. I am looking for Jan Bastiansen Van Kortrijk's wife and mother as well as for Jan's father Sebastian's parentage. Sebastian was born in about 1586 in Kortrijk, West Flanders. I do not know the given name of his father because Sebastian's older son Jan Bastiansen used a toponymic name rather than a patronymic name. According to Riker's History of Harlem [1904], Sebastian's parents retired and then moved to Holland to Leerdam (Prince's Land because it was owned by Prince William of Orange) in circa 1615. Sebastian had two known sons Jan and Michiel were born there Leer1618 and 1620 respectively. In 1663, Jan and Michiel emigrated to New Amsterdam with their respective wives and children on the "De Bonte Koe" boat in April 1663. Jan had four children: Cornelis, Hendrick (my ancestor), Laurens, and Isabella Arabella "Beeltjie". Whereas Cornelis' and Hendrick's descendnats adopted "Kortright/ Courtright" as their surname, Michiel followed the Dutch naming pattern by giving one of his sons a name "Bastian" for his grandfather Sebastian. Furthermore, his children used the paternal patronymic "Michielsen." Laurens did the same thing as his uncle Michiel did: he used "Louw" / "Low", a name corrupted from his given name Lauren (pronounced as Louwern plus "sen" whose affix he did not add. I would appreciate someone's explanation about the origin of "Bastin". Thank you very much for your help. Regards, Jean Boutcher To: Glcourtr@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net, Joelellie@aol.com Subject: "David L. Lear" : Re: Names I'm researching X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:16:21 EDT --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "David L. Lear" To: Dutch-Colonies-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Names I'm researching Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:56:49 -0400 Message-ID: <37D9A8D1.151@epix.net> References: <199909102108.OAA04636@bl-14.rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: Names I'm researching Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:34:07 EDT From: jean boutcher To: Dutch-Colonies-L@rootsweb.com Hi, Alison and all, I am researching the names; HANSEN, Hans Hendricks, LOW (Louw,Louwe,Lowe),.... Riker's "History of Harlem" [1904] contains information on the Low Family. Abbott's The Courtright (Kortright) Family [1922] has the 'Laurens Jansen Low' family. Your ancestor's given name "Hans" has caught my eye. I am looking for the parentage of Catherine Hansen who was married to Hendrick Jansen Kortright on December 14, 1672. Because Riker's gives Hans Webber and Elsje Pieters van Hamburg as the " probable " parents, I am continuing searching for her parents. She and Hendrick Jansen Kortright's oldest son is named "Jan" apparently in honor of Hendrick's father Jan Bastiansen, but there is no name "Eljse" in honor of Catherine's "probable" mother Eljse Pieters. Catherine Hansen and Hendrick Jansen Kortright's children as follows: 1. Jan (John), b. 1674, m. Maria W. Vredenburgh (my ancestors) 2. Hendrick, b. 1677, m. Mary De Witt, 1700 3. Cornelius, b. 1680, m. Christina Rosencrans, 1701 4. Geertie, b. 1682, m. Abraham Schut, 1714 5. Arie, b. 1684 6. Antje. b. 1686, m. Jacob Decker 7. Lawrence, b. 1688, m. Sarah Ten Eyck, 1715 8. Jacob, b. 1692 9. Jannetje, b. 1994, m. Hendrick Decker, 1717 10. Peter, b. 1696, m. Marrite Van Garden, 1717 11. Catherine, b. 1699. #1 Jan remarried 1711 Elizabeth Van Kampen. #2 Hendrick remarried 1703/4 Cathryn Crom, widow of Arie Van Etten Thanks much in advance. Regards, Jean Jean, This information looks good except for Antje. She married Jacob Decker on 2 September 1695, so the 1686 birthdate is much too late. She is likely the second or third child. I have no baptismal record for either her or Hendrick. David ==== Dutch-Colonies Mailing List ==== To: Glcourtr@aol.com, Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Cc: BELGIUM-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: In Honor of Whom? X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:57:42 EDT Hi, everybody! I read in a brief genealogical paper dated 1907, saying that there was (is ?) a statue in honor of the founder of Kortrijk. He was a "pro-testant" and a follower of John Calvin. My question is: What was the full name of the founder? I cannot find any further information about Kortrijk in encyclopedia. Thanks much in advance. Regards, Jean To: mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Re: Kortrijk-Dutsel X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:21:02 EDT Hi Cousin Marvin, You and I have the same thought. I remember seeing "Brabant" mentioned in the Dudley paper way back. A village in Leyden was named Plymouth in 1611 and reserved exclusively for English Puritans who fled to the Netherlands from Plymouth, England. So I wonder if the Netherlands also named a town "Kortrijk" exclusively for a group of Kortrijk Belgians. I will join Gen-BeneLux to make enquiries regarding Kortrijk in NETH. Perhaps, we will get a clue about Sebastian's family through the archives in Kortrijk-Leerdam. Regards, Jean To: Glcourtr@aol.com, Joelellie@aol.com, mdcourt@softcom.net Subject: Re: re letter to Archive Kortrijk X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 From: jean boutcher Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:57:52 EDT On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:08:19 +0200 "Beernaert Ivan" ivan.beernaert@ping.be> writes: hi Jean, By this I repeat my offer. Please react quickly. Tommorow morning I go to Kortrijk to the State Archive. By coincidence I had planned to go to the archive of Kortrijk (state and city archive - in the same location) on thuesday. If you want sent me your question on e-mail. I print it out and hand it over at the archive in Kortrijk. In the meantime I will ask for the best way for paying for research or answering. I will not do the research myself. In your letter give as much information as you have, dates, names, places. Don't forget the names of the wifes (possible known godparents and so ..) greatings, Ivan Beernaert e-mail: ivan.beernaert@ping.be --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: sealover2 To: ivan.beernaert@ping.be Subject: Re: re letter to Archive Kortrijk Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:54:45 Message-ID: <19990915.155336.5527.2.sealover2@juno.com> References: <002101beff9c$e8871320$bd23cfc3@p4u10126> Hi Ivan, I am pretty out of luck. The information I give you now is scanty. The names of the wives or godparents are not known. Maybe by luck, the State Archives in Kortrijk might have a copy of baptism record with a name "Sebastian _____ , baptised at St._____ Church in Kortrijk. I would deeply appreciate your letting me know how much it costs to pay for answering and / or researching. Meanwhile, enjoy your trip to my ancestor's birthplace ! : ) Thanks much. Regards, Jean PLEASE SEE "SEBASTIAN VAN KORTRIJK" below. Thanks. -- ===================== CUT ======================== "SEBASTIAN VAN KORTRIJK" 1586 - circa 1663 1. Sebastian (Van Kortrijk) "Walloon Belgian" Born 1586, Kortrijk, Belgium Emigrated to Leerdam, NL, 1615 Wife's name unknown Had two known sons: Jan and Michiel | 2. Jan Bastiansen (Van Kortright) born 1618 Leerdam, NL, Wife's name unknown Emigrated to NY 1663 Died after 1677 NY Had issue: Cornelis, Hendrick, Laurens, Beeltje 3. Michiel Bastiansen (Van Kortrihjk) born 1620, Leerdam, NL, Wife's name unknown Emigrated to NY 1663 Died after 1677 Had children: Reyer, Metje, Annetje, Bastian, Aefje