Subj: Manley Genealogy
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 7:18:01 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell_at_hotmail.com>
To: DSherry_at_aol.com, kathkan_at_aol.com
Hello...saw your old message and hope that you can help me in my research. I would be REALLY
grateful if you can!!
My grandfather, Edward Patrick Manley, son of Bryant Manley and Margaret McDonald, was born 3/19/1872 and baptised 3/24/1872 at St. John's Church, Bellaire, Belmont County, OH (Roman Catholic Church) and was sponsored by William Manley and Mary Manley. According to FamilySearch, Bryan Manley and Morgaret McDonnell (I've seen three spellings: Bryant, Bryan, Bryon Manly; Margaret McDonald, Morgaret McDonnell, Maggie McDonald) were married in Belmont County, OH 6/28/1868...children: Mary MANLY 5/4/1869, my grandfather Edward Manley 1872, Joseph F. Manley 10/18/1874, Margaret Manley 12/24/1876...all in Belmont County, OH.
On FamilySearch I located a William Manley who married Bridget Devan 1/1/1878 in Belmont Co., OH. I dont know if this person is the William Manley who was Godfather to Edward, if maybe this is the son of the man who sponsored Edward, if he was a relative, or none of the above.
The 1880 Federal Census in Belmont Co., OH has a Margaret Manley in Pultney Twnsp, who was the head of the household. Also listed are a William Manley in Pultney, a Peter Manley in Pultney, and a Isaac Manley in Warren Twnshp as head of households--all these are in Belmont County. I also saw a Manley Gatten in Washington Twnsp, Belmont Co...the name Gatten seemed familiar but I'm not sure where I've seen it before...on a Manley Forum I would think.
Further, on the 1890 Special Census for Ohio Co., WV I found an Ellison Manley, Private, enlisted and discharged in 1864 who resided in Wheeling, Ohio Co., WV, which is just across the Ohio River from Bellaire, Belmont Co., OH. Also, in that census was a William McDonald, Private, enlisted 1864 and discharged 1865 who also lived in Wheeling, WV.
Finally, I ran across the name William Manley age 40 and a David Manley age 13 on the ship Erins Queen coming from Liverpool 10/28/1848, along with Donald MANLE age 25, Ellen MANLEY age 37, Alice MANLY 8, D. MANLY 6, Sarah MANLY 4, and a C. MANLE age 2. (The first and last named people were not together, nor with the middle family in the listing.)
My grandfather Edward married a Protestant, May Worls of Wheeling, WV, and used these names for their children: Gladys, Glenn, Orville Edward, Lester William, Thelma Margaret (my mother), Naomi, Vivian, Norman C., Harold, and Jack Joseph. There were only 5 living children out of the 10 as long as I can remember. Only 3 of these 5 had children.
Do any of these names mean anything to you...especially the first paragraph?
I intend to check Belmont Co. Courthouse and St. John's Church some time in the future, but am unable to do it soon. I HOPE that you can help me...I would APPRECIATE it VERY MUCH!!!!
Thanking you in advance...
Michele Powell
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:56:51 PM Eastern
Standard Time
From: DSherry
To: michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
Hi Michelle,
You have come to
the right place. William Manley (1852-1920)
was my great-great grandfather; Peter (1821-1898) was his father and his mother
was Mary O'Maley (1825-?). The Mary in
the baptism notice was William's sister (1855-?) who later married a Loftus.
They appear to
have arrived in America in the 1852-1855 time.
The first references are births in WV in 1855 and they moved every few
years, settling in Bellaire in the late 1860s.
I have never
established a family connection between your Manleys and mine (they are not in
Peter's will), but you may be happy to know that I believe I have copies of
your Manley baptisms from St. John's.
(I'll check my files and email them to you when I find them.)
The O'Mal(l)ey's
are almost exclusively from County Mayo and records show that both of William's
parents were born in Ireland. He was
born in Scotland, so the question of the origin of the Manley's comes down to
whether his parents met in Scotland or at home. (I know there were some Manleys in Mayo from the property
records.)
I suspect
Margaret is head of the household in 1880 because Bryan died or moved
away. I looked a little before for a
death record but did not find one.
The other Manleys
you mention do not match up with anything I have on Peter/William's family.
Good luck in your
hunt. It would be great if we could
establish a link.
Best wishes,
Dave
Subj: Re: Manley Genealogy
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 6:16:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell_at_hotmail.com>
To: DSherry_at_aol.com
Dear Dave,
Thank you SO MUCH for the information!!! Perhaps the families were cousins instead of direct bloodline since Bryan wasn't mentioned in Peter's will...Bryan may have been a nephew. I would be interested in having a copy of that will if you would want to share it, as well as the Manley baptisms from St. John's.
I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH!!!! If they were related in Ireland, that would account for William and Mary being chosen for Godparents in America.
I assume that you haven't been able to determine what ship they came over on since you don't have the exact dates. Has that part of your search resulted in a dead end?
My family has always said that both of my grandfather's parents came from Ireland. My grandfather, although born in America, learned to speak with an accent for that reason, I suppose, and retained it until he died at age 91. I guessed that was why the marriage record that FamilySearch has spelled it phonetically as Morgaret McDonnell. However, we do have a McDonnell family living in my town, so who knows...
I haven't been able to find out anything online about what happened to Bryan. When I find out when their last child was born, then maybe I can figure out when he departed or died...I know it was at least after 1876. I an anxious to see the microfilms at St. Clairsville, OH to make sure that this was my Margaret as head of household in 1880 and hope they list the names of the children, or at least the ages...
None of my family knew any details of Grandpa's (Edward) parental family, and none of his children knew Grandpa's parents as I think there was a controversy over Edward marrying out of the Catholic church. Grandpa would not speak about them at all. I was once told, upon questioning my mother about where Grandpa's siblings were, that his brothers all went over the hills and she waved over eastward towards the Morgantown/Clarksburg, WV direction...of course, she could have meant to the ocean for all I know, and I was told to quit asking questions about his family.
A cousin said that he thought the Manleys worked in real estate, a quarry, railroad in WV, and one was a priest in Washington, and my grandfather worked in a bar in Bellaire. A real variety...
THANK YOU again for your information!! Now I have some idea of what direction I need to go in my research! I am looking forward to seeing your information. Also if you have your family on computer, I would like to see it as well. Often times they traveled together.
GRATEFULLY,
Michele
Researching:
Moore, Renforth, Shepherd, Peck, VanMeter, DuBois, Powell, Kuhens, Laugh, Summers, Manley
Families
Subj: Re: Manley Genealogy
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 9:34:46 PM Eastern
Standard Time
From: DSherry
To: michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
Michele,
I'm glad to be of
help. I was mistaken about the sibling
records I had ordered - it turns out it was other Sherrys and Devans. I guess I did not ask for the Manley records
as I knew William and Bridget's birthplace.
In most cases there is no more information than is available on Family
Search (though the physical documents are nice to have). However for a couple
years in the early 1880s the priest listed more specific information about the
birthplaces of
parents - Town/counties in the U.S. and counties in Ireland. However, this is the address you want to get
microfilm copies of the St. Johns records.
Diocese of
Steubenville
Office of the
Chancellor
P.O. Box 969
Steubenville, OH
43952
Looking through
my files, I found a record from Mt. Calvary Cemetery in Wheeling that note
Bryan Manley's (born in Ireland) death on Sep. 30, 1898 at age 68.
In another spot I
have another (unreadable name) Manley child baptized March 23, 1879 to
Bernardo(?) and Margarita McDonell Manley with Martin Kavanagh and Maria
Hanahan as godparents.
Peter's will is
in a .xif format (reader available at www.pagis.com) and is larger than 1Mb.
There is no mention of your family in it, but I'm happy to send it if you wish.
I'll dig some
more later to see if I can come up with anything else.
Dave
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:01:51 PM Eastern
Standard Time
From: DSherry
To: michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
Michelle,
I found the
original letter from the Diocese which lists Manley info that they had
found. They mentioned:
Mary born
3/4/1869 baptized 3/19/1869
godparents: John
Cavenaugh and Ann McGlanghin
John born
7/20/1870 baptized 11/31/1870
godparents:
Patrick Manley and Winifred McCormick
Bemar? born July
? 1881 baptized 7/17/1881
godparents: Pat Dixon and Mary Barrett
There is also a
record of your grandparents marriage with a reference to a dispensation.
I'd be willing to
bet if you gave them the other birthdates they'd be able to get them for you as
well.
Attached is a
GEDCOM of the first few Manley generations.
Good luck,
Dave
Subj: Re:
Manley Genealogy
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:27:38 AM Eastern
Standard Time
From: DSherry
To: michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
manleywharf.jpg
(34447 bytes)
Michele,
Last one tonight!
I have not been
able to find the family's immigration records in the Irish Immigration series
of books or some other passenger lists/indices I have an opportunity to look
at. Maybe Manley sounds too English to
be included.
If the Manleys
were from County Mayo, it would explain why your grandfather had a strong
accent, as the western part of Ireland was the latest to be Anglicized. Islands off the coast in current days are
among the few places the native language is still spoken.
If you do make it
to the courthouse in the near future, you could help me and perhaps yourself
out. The will I have could be just a
fraction of the total probate package that exist for Peter. (You'll also want
to check to see if one exists for Bryan).
I copied the will when I was once in St. Clairsville - I live just
outside of San Francisco - but did not know to ask about the rest. If you go there, if you could ask the clerks
to get you the rest of the package if it exists, there is the potential for
some interesting stuff. The first
Sherry had a pretty dry will, but the full package that I eventually received
listed all of his possessions and referred to relatives that I did not have
previous knowledge of. The reason I ask
for your help is that the clerks are not always responsive to written requests.
Attached is a
picture I found of the Manley Wharf Boat, which Peter and William operated.
Kind regards,
Dave
Subj: Re: Manley Genealogy
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 4:21:22 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell_at_hotmail.com>
To: DSherry_at_aol.com
Dear Dave,
I tried to send you an email last night, but it disappeared when I tried to Add Original Text...not sure what happened to it...lol...but if you did receive it, that is why I may be repeating myself.
You have given me so much information and so many clues that I can't begin to thank you enough!!! I REALLY APPRECIATE all the time and effort you expended in helping me! Thank You!!!
I live in about 45 minutes south of Wheeling, WV, so I am close to St. Clairsville. It is just the matter of putting it into my schedule, but plan to do so in the near future...January perhaps. I have other branches of my family from the Wheeling area and just need to organize my information that I have to see what I want to check on. I am new at this, so I am sure that it takes me longer than those who have been at this hobby for a long time. I will certainly be happy to check on the total probate package for Peter (and Bryan). I hope I have better luck than I did when I went to Moorefield, WV to visit my son and tried to find other information on Conrad Moore (who founded Moorefield) than what was in the will book. They gave me a blank look even though I asked two different clerks and used three different phrases. What they did show me, however, astounded me...they had the actual wills of the late 1700s and 1800s folded up in a box which were available to be accessed (or removed) by anyone. The papers were so fragile that they were falling apart; I think they should be archived somewhere! But that is the repressed librarian in me...LOL
Finding out where Bryan is buried is very helpful! Now maybe I can track down Margaret and others. And, I really had to laugh at the Bernardo (?) and Margarita McDonell Manley as parents of a new baby...my first thought that came to mind was that it must have been a Spanish priest...LOL...but then your information about County Mayo and other places where the native language is spoken in Ireland makes it more understandable that others couldn't understand them easily. Grandpa always called a fork, a farrk, among other certain words...a soft, pleasant, rolling sounding accent...and he never hit the shores of Ireland!
I haven't gotten the picture downloaded yet, but do appreciate your sharing! I'll do that next...
Gratefully,
Michele
Subj: Re:
Manley Genealogy
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:31:24 PM Eastern
Standard Time
To: michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
Michele,
I'm glad I was
able to help. Please keep me up on your
successes.
I found one other
data point which goes against something I sent you earlier. In one of my databases I have Bryan Manley's
death as 4/29/1898 and date of birth as Jan 1842; I'd guess this was from the
Belmont Co. records when I was there a few years ago, but that was before I
developed good source-recording habits;?
Best wishes,
Dave
From: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell_at_hotmail.com>
To: DSherry_at_aol.com
Subject: Manley
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 00:11:10 +0000
Hi Dave,
Finally got around to sending for information on Bryan and Margaret McDonald (McDonnell)Manley. It seems to be spelled Manley on the church records, while it is Manly on the census records. So, now that is clarified that we are definitely a Manley family.
I've been ill and in the hospital twice this winter. I haven't
made it up to check out the Probate Records yet, but I haven't forgotten about it.
I tried to send for death, birth records of some of the Worls families from the Belmont County courthouse, Health Dept. without any luck on any of them. I did find three marriages on that side of the family from the
Probate Court.
But, the joy of what I received from the Diocese is a record of the dispensation for my grandfather and grandmother in 1909 for disparity of cult. The other biggie is that on a couple of the last birth/baptismal documents have that Bryan and Margaret came from County Mayo...like your O'Mal(l)ey's. So, now I know where they were located in Ireland. You were right on your mark with that guess they might have come from County Mayo when I told you about my grandfather speaking with an accent even though he hadn't set foot in Ireland...learned it from his parents, evidently.
Have you checked on ships with destitute immigrant Irish that were sent on to Canada? Forget where I read about that...a couple of places.
I'd like to know what you know about County Mayo and the Manley families there.
Also, a Patrick Manley was a Godparent to one of Bryan and Margaret's children along with Winifred McCormick. Also, another one has a Loftus as a Godparent, but I haven't deciphered the first name yet. Too, two Ward's were other Godparents, and I know that we have some kind of relative named Margaret Ward that lived in SC, I believe.
I can't thank you enough for your sending the address of the Diocese to me and the information that I could acquire records from them! It is wonderful! And, I have you and the good people there for this information!
Thanks again,
Michele
Date: Sat, 9
Feb 2002 12:32:56 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject:
manley
To:
michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
Hi Michele,
Great to hear from you.
Hope you continue to feel better.
Please use this email address going forward. I'm trying to shift everyone from my aol
address.
The Patrick and Loftus connections make it seem possible
that there could be a family connection.
Perhaps Bryan was a nephew of Peter's.
I have not searched for the baptismal records of most of the
grandchildren of Peter because I knew where their parents were born. Perhaps it is worth it to see who their
godparents were.
Could you share with me the year and the child for whom
Patrick was godfather? I don't have
anything for him after 1880 and he is not listed as a survivor in his father's
1898 will. Thank you
Here is the descendants page from my online Manley family
tree.
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=artsherry&id=I17
Click on any of them to read what I have on each.
In case you have seen this, I also posted a Belmont
county online records page. Maybe some
of this could help you.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/belmontcountyohvitalsonline.htm
Attached is a map of County Mayo. It shows where the Manleys and O'Malleys
appear in the (T)ithes [1802-1830s] and (G)riffiths Valuation [1856]. The yellow markings are for the O'Malleys
and the checked ones are for the Manleys.
The printed numbers correspond to the parishes and in handwriting I've
recorded what parish records exist according to a book I found. When I was in Ireland a few years ago, I
tried to find birth and marriage records for Peter and Mary, but didn't have
any luck, probably because there weren't many records from the 1820s. Perhaps the later birth of Bryan would make
it easier to find him.
County Mayo historically and currently is one of the
poorer parts of Ireland. The land is
less suited for farming. The English
focused on all of the better lands and marginalized (left alone) the Irish in
the western counties. This is why the
Irish language survived longer out in the west. You could probably find more about Mayo if you like by using the
search engine Google and try "Mayo genealogy" and see where that
takes you.
Hopefully our further searches can help each other
out.
Best wishes,
Dave
From: "Michele Powell" michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: manley
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:42:01 +0000
Dear Dave,
When I look through the names of your family, even though they are probably common Irish names, they seem so similar that perhaps may be related in some manner.
Patrick Manley and Winifred McCormick were godparents to (this is from the "translated" version by the Diocese) "John was born 7/20/1870 and baptized 7/31/1820. He received his first communion in 1883 at the age of 12. There is no record of confirmation. The communion and confirmation records then skip from 1886 and begin again in 1914." MY NOTE: The year of baptism is a typo and should be 1870. ANOTHER NOTE: The handwriting is heavy and dark, but not clear, and it appears that the EGO INFRASCRIPTUS BAPTIZAVI names are not by the proper name that we know them as. For example: Mary is Mariann or Marianna--perhaps for Godparent Anna McGlaughin. Also, there seems to be perhaps a Latin ending on some of the names. For example: "Bernardo (Bryan) Manly" and the child looks like "Bernardum." I wonder if that means a version of our Jr.? The register form itself is in Latin--but most of the handwritten information--hence the translation. I need a priest to decipher these handwritten names, but probably he wouldn't do a better job than the Diocese. :) The baptisms were certainly worth getting for myself. Bryan and Margaret's marriage wasn't available from the Diocese though.
I had pulled up an article earlier on the Potato Famine in Ireland titled "The Great Famine," and it was concerning County Mayo exclusively. "County Mayo was one of the counties to suffer most and in commemoration the following article was included in a report from Mayo County Council." Since I know now that they arrived here from County Mayo, I will do some more researching of that area.
I'll check the pages that you mentioned and am anxious to see the map
you mentioned. Thanks again for your wonderful help.
Oh, and the name Loftus appears to be Jacobus Loftus, but I may be wrong.
With appreciation,
Michele
From: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell_at_hotmail.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: manley
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:30:03 +0000
The map is fantastic! What a gem! I need to study it well now. Also, thanks for the other two sites. I printed out some of your people. Also, the second one site wouldn't load up.- it said error - but I bet it is the one that I went to last night with Belmont County Vital Statistics Online. This one has Bryan's and Peter's death dates.
By the way, did you say that Bryan is buried in Mt. Calvary in WHEELING, WV or Mt. Calvary in BELLAIRE, OH? Is Peter buried in the same place?
Also, are you aware that there were Manley's living in Wheeling, WV (Ohio County) and perhaps Marshall County, as well? I keep running into them here and there and can't match them up with anyone. A Margaret Manley is in that area with a daughter Bridget. Here is my slip--I'll copy it for you:
1880 Union District Marshall County WV Census
Manley (237)
Margaret...54-wf...widow...keeping house...IRE...IRE...IRE
John Hartly...26-wm...sson...watchman...IRE...IRE...Ire
Margret (as written)...21-wf...sdau...at home...VA...IRE...IRE...IRE
Bridget...19-wf...sdau...VA...IRE...IRE
William CARTER...4-wm...gson...WV...IRE...VA.
Thanks again,
Michele
Date: Sun,
10 Feb 2002 16:25:58 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re:
manley
To:
"Michele Powell" <michele_powell_at_hotmail.com>
Hi Michele,
The Latin names definitely can be tricky. I believe
Jacobus Loftus is James Loftus, Mary Manley's husband. Who was the godmother for this child?
I know Bryan was buried in Wheeling because the cemetery
sent me a copy of the record (I think it was from a book that published old
cemetery records). Peter was not listed
there; I don't know where he was buried.
I think his wife was buried in Bellaire Calvary (also in a book) but
only guess it's her because of her old age at at time when there were not many
Manleys in Bellaire. His eldest son
William, my gg-grandfather, is buried in Bellaire and I've seen his grave.
I've never tried to track any other Manleys except your
family. Probably a mistake. The family stopped many times before they
arrived in Bellaire (different birth cities for many of the children) and I
never saw another set of Manleys around in the censuses. Perhaps when I have more time I'll give it a
go.
Take care,
Dave
From: "Michele Powell" michele_powell_at_hotmail.com
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: manley
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 01:22:15 +0000
Dave...
Translated version from the Diocese: "Francis Joseph was born August 9th and baptized October 15, 1874."
From the baptismal paper--my version: Francisnum(?) Joseph to Bernardo Manley and Maria McDonnel. Godparents: Jacobus Loftus and Brigitta McLoughlin or (McKoughlin) by P. Steyb.
Hope this is helpful for you.
Seems I won't be going home (I'm in Ohio at the present) this coming weekend as I had planned; but when I get home and am able, I plan to check out Wheeling's records. I'll let you know if I find any other Manley families, etc. there. I really don't think I'll find any of Grandpa's siblings, as they don't appear in Bellaire after the 1900 as far as I could tell, so far. Margaret was head of the household (Bryan had died in 1898, you said) and most of the children were still living with their mother despite the ages of 29, 28, 25, etc. However, in 1909 my grandfather married a girl from the area (Worls), and they had their own 1910 Census in Bellaire. I couldn't find anything about any of the others. Perhaps Margaret had died and the family scattered by then. And with the common names, I probably don't have a snowball's chance in finding them anywhere since I don't have any clues except my mother waving her hand out towards the hills in the Clarksburg, WV way indicating some brothers went "thatta way."
Is there every enough time to solve all the puzzles? I don't think so.... :D
Take care,
Michele
From: "Manley, Joseph M" <Joseph.Manley_at_med.va.gov>
To: "'DSherry_at_aol.com'" <DSherry_at_aol.com>
Subject: Surname - Manley
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:15:05 -0800
David, you posted the surname Manley to the Bellaire web site. Do you know anything about a Bryant/Bryan Manley who married Margaret McDonald in Bellaire on 6/28/1868? They had the following children: Mary 5/4/1869, Edward 1872, Joseph F. 10/18/1874 and Margaret 12/24/1876 -- all born in Belmont Co. If you have any information, please e-mail me at JManley_at_msn.com. Thanks.
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 07:01:29 -0800 (PST)
From:"dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Manleys
To: JManley_at_msn.com
Hi Joe,
I do have some Manley info and would be happy to send
what I have when I get a chance.
Unfortunately there's not much.
I did correspond with one of your cousins a few years ago and will also
send you her contact info.
I have not found a conclusive link between our Manley
families, but believe there was a baptism that involved the two families.
You can read about my Manleys at
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=artsherry&id=I17
regards,
From:"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Manleys
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:54:11 +0000
Thanks Dave. This is really great. You have save me years worth ofresearch.
I am new to this genelogy stuff, but finding it very interesting and exciting. I will be continuing the effort and will let you know if I find anything new or exciting.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Manleys
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:07:52 +0000
Hi Dave,
I am back again. Can't believe all the good stuff you have discovered.
It isgoing take me a week to sort through all of it and try to chart everything out. Many thanks.
I am now in contact with Michele Powell (a cousin) who I think you have had many exchanges with. Sorry if I duplicated some of your exchanges.
I plan to make a trip to Ireland either this summer or next. My wife is English and we go to UK each year to see her, so will break away for a side trip. In the meantime, I was thinking of using a geneology research service in County Mayo to track a few things (once I get better orgainized). I don't want to duplicate your efforts again, so can you share with me how you did your reseach overthere. Michele (Mike) mentioned you traveling there in person. Did you seek any other help. The outfit I was planning to use can be found at www.mayoroots.com
Also, were you able to localize the search to any particular part of Ireland (town etc). This isn't scientific, but I notice the only two places in county Mayo were there are both Gilboys and McDonalds is Belmullet and Ballina. (I am assuming that your Manleys and my Manleys in Bellair had a familiar connection in County Mayo and they married women who live near their home - could be a wide goose chase).
Thanks again - and Happy Holidays.
Joe Manley
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:12:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Manleys
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the thoughts.
I've made some progress but further success has been elusive.
There are 2 challenges to tracing ancestry back in
Ireland.
The lack of records in Ireland, church and civil before
1865.
The lack of American records that specifically identify
where the person was from. (One friend
of mine was lucky - his immigrant ancestor's tombstone had his hometown - I
think this is pretty rare. For some of
my German and Polish ancestors, the American churches also recorded hometown
info, but the best I've seen with my Irish is what county they came from.)
My wife and I visited Ireland a few years ago and I went
to a library in Dublin that had microfilm of certain Mayo parish records. In looking at all/most of them I did not
find any matches with a Manley-O'Maley marriage. The handwriting was sometimes difficult to read, and I wasn't
aware of the Manley spelling variants at the time so there's a chance I missed
something.
Bryan's birth being closer to 1850 gives you a better
shot of records existing for his baptism, and the centers' computerized
compilation of all the records might result in a lucky hit for you. A later emigration might help as well.
I have not used of the genealogy services yet. Without specific information on an ancestor
to provide them, I'm not sure what they could come back with, although a
summary of the Manley/Munnelly family history in Mayo would probably be
interesting.
O'Malley is a fairly common name in Mayo and there is an
active clan organization that has published info about notable historical
figures. Our visit happened to be timed
with the annual clan rally, and though I know nothing specific about my
ancestor, it was fun to spend some time with local and others that were
potential very distant cousins.
The Devans and Gilboys are much rarer names and perhaps
will be worth a shot someday if I feel the urge to have the centers look at
them, but I'm still trying to see if I can track down more info stateside to
narrow things down.
Do you have a Gilboy connection also?
Best wishes,
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com, jmanley_at_msn.com
Subject: Re: Manleys
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:50:00 +0000
Dave,
No Gilboy connection other than "your" side of the family. Feeling that you Michelle had tread the conventional path, I was trying to be creative in "linking" remote connections. The current Irish telephone directory only lists 8 Gilboys living in County Mayo: 4 in Belmullet,3 in Ballina, 1 in Foxford and 1 in Crosmolina. Knowing that some folks didn't move very far from their roots, it occurred to me that this might be a clue and I was thinking of checking the parish churches in the two main areas. (I am sure I will have a hundred other strange ideas between now and the trip and will abandon most of them before implementation.
It is possible that Bryan Manley just happened to move to Bellaire at the time Patrick and Family lived there - but I think it is more likly that he was "invited" to immigrate and they sponsored him (meaning they were related somehow and coming from the same town/area in Ireland). Anyway, will continue the march and see what I can turn up.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Manleys
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:28:47 +0000
Dave,
I apologize if this message is repetitive. I am having trouble with my internet provider and some of my messages are vaporizing. There are no Gilboys on my side of the family that I know of. I was trying to be creative in piece together disparate facts to see if any connected in the same geographic space. It turns out that there are only 8 Gilboys living in County Mayo today (who have phones): 4 in Belmullet; 2 in Ballina; 1 in Foxford; and one in Corssmolina. Ballina is a seaport with ready access to "Westport" and further points in Scotland and U.S. Anyway, will file this away as interesting tidbit with no real connection for now.
I came across a new website that places the 1850 Scottish census on line. I don't want to duplicate your efforts, so can you tell me if you have ever used this one: www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Also, I think I have found a contact in Ohio to go through the Naturazation (Citizenship) records at the court house. These date back to 1803. Have you already done this and do you want me to search for anyone in particular?
Date:Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:06:05 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject:Re: Manleys
To:"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
Glad to see the energy
- I was just a little slow in responding!
The naturalization info I have gotten has been limited -
William Manley, the one born in Scotland, has an entry in the Belmont co.
records but there is no new/unknown info in the documents. Perhaps you'll find better results if Bryan
is there.
I checked my records for the Bryan Manleys and came up
with just a little more than you previously sent me.
There was a 1881 birth for a daughter (Bemar?) where the
handwriting was poor and another son.
I'll send you something more complete when I get some time to track the
stuff down and get it out of my computer and files.
The Scotland site looks interesting. Unfortunately it appears William was born
too early (1852ish) to be in the database.
The 1851 census will be worth coming back to try when it's ready next
year.
I won't likely make to Spokane any time soon, but one of
my colleagues, a native, tells me it's great.
I live in the San Francisco Bay area.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Manleys
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:21:33 -0800
Dave, my researcher at the Belmont county courthouse has found a little more information on Bryant. His immigration file said that he entered the country in November 1852 (12 years old). This is much earlier than I expected and suggests he was living with some adults, somewhere. You mentioned the citizenship papers on William. From where did you obtain the documents? Should I have my researcher look for his or Peter's papers in St. Clairsville or is this where you got your stuff?
By the way, I think I have figured out what your family was doing in Milo, Glovers Gap and Cameron during that timeframe - Building the B & O railroad link between Fairmont and Wheeling or doing something to provide services to the builders. I couldn't understand what an immigrant could be doing in remote parts of WVA. I think the workers moved their families along the line to accommodate the commute to work. In a separate message, I will forward a map of the rail link and the opening ceremony at Wheeling. Could Peter read and write?
If your family arrived between 1852 (William's birth) and 1855 (census data). It is possible that our families arrived at the same time and worked their way across the country with something happening to Bryant's family along the way. Or, they could have come from Scotland together. Does your census information list the members of the household at Milo etc, or is it just a head of household list? Do you have any idea where in Scotland they were living during William's birth?
My researcher is now going to check the probate records. Is there anything else you could suggest? I am going to try to check for ship sailing records that would arrive in November 1852 in either New York, Philadelphia, or Baltimore.
JOSEPH MANLEY <JMANLEY_at_msn.com> wrote:
Subject: MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West Virginia Midland Railway and its connections
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl
From: dave sherry <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
To: JOSEPH MANLEY <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West
Virginia Midland
Railway and its connect
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:41:33 -0800 (PST)
This one is better for showing their path ...
Map and profiles showing the Baltimore and Ohio Rail Road
with its branches and immediately tributary lines, 1858; compiled and drawn by
L. Jacobi C.E. Baltimore.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Fw: MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West Virginia Midland Railway and its connect
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:09:10 +0000
Dave,
Do you know anything about an Edward Manley who emmigrated from Ireland in June 1856. Apparently, Peter Manley was the witness on his citizenship application in 1876. I have ordered the estate packets from probate on Peter and William.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:40:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West
Virginia Midland Railway and its connect
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
Thanks for keeping me up on the work you and your
researcher are doing.
I was able to track down the naturalization notes I made
several years ago and they differ slightly from what you sent me.
age at filing
arrival filed witness
Edward Manley
26 Jun 1856 Oct 6 1868
Edward Manley
30 May 1860 Jun 20 1874
John Manley
21 Feb 1853 Apr 2 1874
William Manley
1854 Nov 5 1888
John Devan
34 Jul 1854 Oct 7 1876 Peter Manley
I've never tried to track the first three on the list.
From the 1880 census - could be him - it's close...
Edward
MANLEY
Birth Year
<1845>
Birthplace
IRE
Age 35
Occupation
Marble Cutter
Marital Status
S <Single>
Race W
<White>
Head of
Household Olona W. BAIRD
Relation
Other
Father's
Birthplace IRE
Mother's
Birthplace IRE
Source
Information:
Census Place 1st Ward, Zanesville, Muskingum, Ohio
Family History
Library Film 1255054
NA Film Number
T9-1054
Page Number
374D
I have the probate packets from Peter, William, and
William's wife Bridget. Nothing much
remarkable in there and no mention of your branches, but I'd be happy to send
you a copy if you want to cancel the work already started.
The path the Manleys took clearly follows the B&O
line, which was completed in 1852.
Irish workers built the railroads so it's probably not surprise that
they settled/migrated along the paths.
Your efforts here have inspired me to see if I can find
Peter's naturalization papers in the WV counties in which they lived. The 1920 census shows William receiving
citizenship through his father's naturalization in 1861.
Speaking of censuses, here is the data I have on the 1860
census
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/family_census_records.htm
I don't know where they lived in Scotland, probably
somewhere in the vicinity of Irish immigrants.
It would be great if that 1851 census due to come out next year has
them. In looking at the website you
sent, it seems unlikely there will be birth records there for William. One of the pages talks about how few people
registered births, especially those not of the mainline religion.
Good luck in your hunt.
Hopefully we'll find a direct connection back to our roots on the Old
Sod!
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West Virginia Midland Railway and its con
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:53:26 -0800
Gosh, great stuff. I need to print out all the census data and work on it for a while. I think my researcher is well underway, so I won't cancel the order. If I find anything interesting, will share in my next transmission. I will be getting and offical copy of William's citizenship papers (tells entry date into country), so would be happy to send you anything you might want.
Once I get my stuff, will compare notes with you.
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:35:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West
Virginia Midland Railway and its con
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
A copy of William's citizenship papers would be much
appreciated.
My visit to the courthouse was near the beginning of my
journey into genealogy. I didn't have
the time then to look as deeply as I'd have liked. I also did not realize how important it was to gather seemingly
peripheral information and document it so that the clues might be put together
later.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>, "Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West Virginia Midland Railway and its con
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:14:17 -0800
O.K. gang, I received the naturalization documents from St. Clairsville today. Unfortunately, they don't seem to contain a lot of new information. Maybe the dates or something will spark something in your memories or research. Dave, I plan to send a copy of everything to Mike and will be happy to send you anything you want, if you will give me a mailing address. Here is what I have:
Bryan Manley Marriage License - 25 June 1868
Bryan Manley citizenship - 29 Sep 1866 (arr US, Nov 1852)
Samuel McDonnell citizenship - 5 Oct 1866 (arr US * June 1866)
Edward Manley citizenship - 6 Oct 1866 (arr US June 1856)
John Manley citizenship - 20 April 1874 (arr US **Feb 1874)
Edward Manley citizenship - 7 OCt 1876 (arr US No Listing***) witness Peter
William Manley citizenship - 5 Nov 1888 (arr US 1854)
Dave, in your message below, you list different dates for some of these. As I understand the records system at the Belmont Courthouse, every record is listed in a card index and the actual certificates are in books. I assume you got your dates from the cards and the certificates might be different. Here is were the records differ: * you listed arr 26 June; ** you listed arr 21 Feb; and *** you listed 20 June 1874 for citizenship and arrival of 30 May 1860. This last record may be important as Peter was the witness.
I've been reading a book on the Irish emigration 1845-1855 that indicates over 100,000 came in some years and there were sometimes 20,000+ ships per year. Unlikely that we will ever track down the vessel. Most sailed from Liverpool or from Glasgow. The current phone book, and the 1870 census for Scotland lists Manleys in the Glasgow suburbs. That may be the Peter/William location.
Last though on Callayo - the only reference even close to this that I could find was the Emigrant Transport Bark (ship) "Callao". I think Dave guess is correct that Callayo was a distortion of County Mayo.
My researcher says the only other files at Belmont County are the Deaths/Birth records. Do either of you want anything from these before I close my contract with her?
Joe
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 22:16:16 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw:
MrSID Viewer - Map showing the West Virginia Midland Railway and its con
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
Thanks for sharing that with us. I believe I looked at cards or something in
a book.
It appears the Edward connected with Peter was living in
Martins Ferry in 1870. John was young -
maybe his mother remarried. That Feb
1874 for his arrival looks like it should be 1854 and his brothers birth in PA
is an interesting clue; maybe they arrived in Philadelphia.
I can get the 1870 image for Bryan and family as well if
you don't have that.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Genealogy
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:47:15 +0000
Have been sorting through the death certificates and probates on Peter, Edward, William and Bryan - Interesting stuff - It appears that Peter died of pneumonia. Big surprise for me was the amount of wealth that Peter and especially William were able to accumulate over their lifetime. Clearly, William was into real estate.
Interesting part of William's probate that caught my eye was a charge against the estate on March 1, 1920 for the funeral Notice in the Wheeling Register. Did you happen to get a copy of the notice and did it say anything more specific about where he was born?
Joe
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:28:16 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Genealogy
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
Peter and William seem to have done well from their
ownership of a wharf and ferry in Bellaire.
Roads/automobiles eventually made this business less
interesting, especially when the bridge was built in the 30s, by the time
William's son John had taken over.
Here are a couple pictures of the boat.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/images/manleywharf.jpg
Wheeling wharf I believe
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~wvwags/pboyd-wharf.jpg
On a visit to Bellaire/St. Clairsville several years ago,
I looked thru the real estate records and noticed William's transactions
numbered at least a couple dozen, too many to look at individually in the time
I had.
I found the Belmont county obituaries for Peter and
William on that trip. (I'd be happy to
send copies if you wish.) I asked my
local researcher for help with the obits for Wheeling newspapers. Recently she found Peter's which revealed
his burial site, which I hadn't known.
Unfortunately we have not been able to find any confirmation of the
location > Rose Hill Cemetery aka Greenwood to look for further
records. A misunderstanding has slowed
the search for William's but I just wrote her yesterday asking her to look for
it next time she is in Wheeling. The
Bellaire one for him is a good several paragraphs, but is not specific about
his birthplace.
I haven't had a chance to full digest and explore all of
the other Manleys I turned up when I did the census work I sent you. Did you get that email?
At some point I'd like to pursue the WV Manleys to see if
anything helpful turns up. The John
Manley your researcher found in the Bellaire naturalizations ended up in
Marshall Co., WV in the early 1900s. I
haven't tried to get his death certificate/obits yet, but that could be
interesting. I'll send you what I've
put into my records about him - (Sorry, I can't remember if you have a
genealogy program.)
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Genealogy
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:44:58 +0000
Thanks for the great photos and interesting background. I don't have a genealogy "program" (not sure what one is actually) I probably need one though.
I will see what I can do about the Wheeling paper for William while I am checking for Bryan. I don't have a good contact yet but should have soon.
I noticed in William's probate packet a listing for $279 for a Casket and Burial from the W.N. Brailly (sp??) company and a $7 charge for digging a grave to the Mount Calvary Cemetary Association. My cousin Michelle tells me there is a Mount Calvary in Wheeling and one in Bellaire.
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:02:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Genealogy
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
You're welcome.
It's fun to share this stuff with other interested (potential!) family
members.
The chief value of a program is to keep all the info
organized in one place. There also nice
reports/graphs that can be generated. If you want to play around with a
program, there are a couple free ones out there. I could send you my Manley file to import and have a look at if
you'd like.
PAF 5.2 is the one you want.
http://www.ldscatalog.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&categoryId=7000000&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=100069&bcname=Software%20Downloads%20-%20Free&top=Y&resetCat=N&replBC=subcatlist100069
Legacy 4.0 Standard Edition
http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/
William's buried at Mt. Calvary in Bellaire. I've been at this grave. The tombstones of him and his family only
have names and some dates.
A few of my Bellaire ancestors are buried in Calvary,
Wheeling. I haven't figured out why
given they were across the river in Bellaire.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Genealogy
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:41:48 -0800
Thanks for the programs. Looking at the long file box of paper next to my desk, I can certainly use some organization to make sense of this stuff. I have also been working from a large "Mat Board" trying to draw all the lines connecting a family tree. You quickly realize how geometrically a family expands within just few generations when you try to draw this stuff.
I did get your message on census data and have been sorting through the entries. Thanks a lot, I've filled in a few gaps in my "tree" from the stuff. I think the key to the mystery for me might lie in the 1860 census as my Bryan Manley had to have been somewhere since he seems to have been an early arrival (1852). What source do you use for you census research and are there any tricks to looking at the census data? I see that Ancestry.com has an index file, I didn't know if there was anything better.
Also, on the obits that you found, did you find them at the Belmont County Library or some other source? I have a researcher in Bellaire that does the leg work for me, but I wanted to tell her were to go to look up the Obits as she normally only deals with the government records at the court house.
Joe
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 15:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Genealogy
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
Attached is what I have on the Manleys, 3 generations
from the start. My great-grandmother was
Ella Manley.
Basically all of the censuses have been indexed to some
degree; there are just in a bunch of different places.
Ancestry.com has indices up to 1850, and 1920 and
1930. Also on their site are some they
licensed from elsewhere - including OH and WV for 1860.
HeritageQuest is available through my local library. They have the indices for 1870 and 1910.
Familysearch.org, the free Mormon site, has the entire
1880 census. The others (ex1930)
generally only have
the head of household.
Genealogy.com has the 1900 census, but I am not a
subscriber. I may go for a month at
some point to fill in a few blanks because there is not much else there that I
feel would help.
Nobody has done the 1860 census really well. I expect that someone will in the next year
or so.
The Bellaire newspapers are available in Bellaire and the
St. Clairsville papers are available there and Bellaire, I think. At one point I was able to correspond with a
librarian in Bellaire who got some obits for me for the price of a modest
donation.
The other key thing to know is that the Belmont Co.
chapter of the Ohio Genealogical Society has extracted information from the
Belmont Chronicle (St. Clairsville) for many of the years between 1870 and
1895. By asking people who had access
to these books for lookups, I was able to know exactly what to ask for. If you subscribe to the Belmont County
mailing list, which I highly recommend, you will be able to contact people who
could help. Send an email to
OHBELMON-D-request_at_rootsweb and put "subscribe" in the body of the
email. Bonnie Burckhardt is one of the
frequent correspondents and she has many of the books and seems very happy to
help. Your researcher can probably find
them at the library as well.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Genealogy
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:36:28 +0000
Super. Thanks for the insights and advice. I've not spent time before looking for a needle in hay stack, so this is kind of exciting.
One tidbit I did find that answers something that showed up on both your and Michelle's documentation. Both of you came across Margaret Manley (widow) on the 1880 cnesus (Pultney 240A). I know who she is now. She is the widow of Edward Manley who died prior to June 9, 1877. This seems to be a third group of Manley's in Bellaire, although Peter was the witness on Edward's citizenship papers. Both Peter and Bryan lived on the same Street. So, I am wondering if Edward may lead us to something related to the other two.
I have his probate packet (this is how I learned of the widow Margaret connection and residence, and to his citizenship papers. I am going to try to get his obit also (being a more recent arrival and having some wealth, I am hoping he may have left a clue of where he was from or what his relationship was to the other players.)
Thanks again for all the help.
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 07:49:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Genealogy: Manley
To: DSherry_at_aol.com, dsherry_at_yahoo.com
Dave...Didn't know if you had this information that Joe Manley sent to me. Joe asked that I send it on to you, just in case it is new for you. I see your family in this listing.
Do you know anything about a Margaret J. Carroll Manley or a John Carroll Stepfather in your family? I ran through your family tree, didn't see anything but might have missed it.
Would this be your John T. Manley d 5/24/1938 (some document has our John listed as John T., as well). Who would be the John T. Manley old enough to purchase burial ground in 1878? Our John s/o Bryan was born 1870, and your John T. s/o William was born in 1881 according to the 1910 census. Are you able to sort any of this out?
Michele
JOSEPH MANLEY <jmanley_at_msn.com> wrote:
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY"
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Genealogy: Bryan
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:36:42 +0000
Mike, I just got off the phone with Mt. Calvary Catholic Cemetery in Wheeling and have some great news. Here is who is buried there named Manley:
Mt. Calvary Catholic Cemetery, National Road, Wheeling, Wva
[correct data in later message]
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 23:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Genealogy: Manley
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
CC: jmanley_at_msn.com
It appears there are at least 6 distinct Manley families
that lived in the Bellaire/Wheeling area.
See the attached sheet which I put together from the 1860
to 1880 censuses.
There seem to be connections among them.
Peter sponsored Edward's naturalization.
Anthony was the godfather for one of Peter's children.*
Anthony, Patrick and John T appear to have family members
in each other's plots.
* I just learned that a few days ago.
There also are a Rose and a Julia who married in Belmont
Co. during the 1870s. (found on familysearch.org)
There is a book that list the cemetery records before
1900 and contains the parents's names of some of them.
I believe the Wheeling Area Genealogy Society has a
copy. It would worthwhile to check up
on that.
The other thing to check will be the death certificates
and obituaries of Patrick, Anthony, and John T. I got lucky recently - the Wheeling obituary for one of my
Bellaire ancestors listed the town in Ireland she was from.
I looked at all the Manleys in the 1860 census in West
Virginia and could not find Bryan (or Patrick or Anthony) anywhere. Here is the link of the summary I did.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley.1860.wv.htm
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Genealogy: Manley
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:05:03 -0800
thanks for the info Dave. What town in Ireland was she from?
Date:
Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:44:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Genealogy: Manley
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
The mother of the first Sherry born in America, Mary
Wall, was born in Shanagolden, County Limerick. The interesting thing is that the Sherrys were from County
Monaghan and I have found no record of her marriage in the U.S. yet.
In addition to the Manley men I sent in the last email ,
there were several women as well. The
attached file is a GEDCOM of all of them to plug into your genealogy programs.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>, "Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Genealogy: Manley
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:00:25 -0800
Congratulations on finding a link to the old country.
According to the genealogy books I have been reading, it is a rare event - and
speaks well of the effort you have invested.
Thanks - I am hoping
lightning will strike again and am asking my researcher to search far and wide
for all possible Sherry obituaries
Mike and I will continue our investigations. Don't put too much stock in the cemetery records I sent you two yet. The girl who I talked with on the phone was reading from multiple cards and I wrote things down as quickly as I could. The three different sections are located in different parts of the cemetery, so the three lists may not be related. I have faxed the write up I shared with you and Mike back to the cemetery for the girl to compare with the actual records again, so I will know in a day or two if I made any errors. good idea!
I am planning to see if I can get the Obits from the Wheeling paper on the following:
Margaret J. Carroll Manley, April 1920
Anthony Manley Nov 23, 1877 son of James, died at age 23
Catharine Rowan Manley, Sep 8, 1893
Catharine Manley, June 27, 1874 died in Bellaire at 9 months
Patrick Manley May 6, 1915
John T. Manley, May 24, 1938
I'm not sure if it's correct but I suspect the Anthony
that died Jun 9, 1913 is the other known Manley (and 6 years is not
correct) Mary Manley that died Aug 5,
1913 is likely his wife
I am now wondering if:
Margaret was Bryan's mother? I don't believe the dates work
Anthony and Patrick were Bryan's brothers (and possibly James)
James died between 1860 (Clarksburg, Harrison Co., WV)
and 1870 (Bellaire, OH)
John Carroll was Bryan Step Father Bryan unlikely the son of Margaret
John T. Manley was Bryan's son he was the son of James
Bridget Manley was John T. Wife? could be his sister
Have no idea who Catharine Rowan Manley or Catharine Manley possibly
Patrick's wife
or Catharine Manley daughter of Patrick and Catherine were?
Will keep you posted.
Rose and Margaret lived in Martin's Ferry at the time of
the 1870 census as did Edward. It could
be useful to see if the baptisms for their children yield more family
connections as godparents.
There are a lot of Manleys to keep track of!
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
CC: jmanley_at_msn.com
Subject: Re: Genealogy: Manley
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:12:43 +0000
Dave/Mike, thanks for the additional information. This is looking less like my Bryan all the time, but maybe the fog will lift. I called my source back at the cemetery and she kindly straighten out my errors (there were a couple from her reading of the cards). She also went out the gravesite and copied more infomation from the markers and checked another set of "interment" cards that listed place of death etc for some of the people. Here is the corrected list with the additional information:
Section 2, Northhalf of 74:
Has a large grey stone marking the section with "Manley" on it. (My brother Jack told me he went with an uncle once to install a stone on the family grave, so this may be the one - but maybe not). If it is, the stone was placed many years later and the dates may not be accurate. Bryan is not listed on the stone (he is on the card). Here is the stone ingravings:
Bridget Manley 1861-1826
Magaret J. Carl Manley 1825-1920
Anthony Manley 1857-1877
John T. Manley Nov 22, 1938, BPOE 418
Mary A. Manley 1858-1878 - (She isn't on the card)
Maggie Manley 1860-1882
Here is the correct information from the cards:
Purchased by John T. Manley, Nov 1878, balanced paid Dec 1878, Address - Bellaire
Bryan Manley died Sept 30, 1898, age 68, Ireland (cause of death Chronic Indigestion)
Bridget Manley, died Sept 15, 1926, buried Sept 18, 1926 (from Spencer, WV, McMechen)
Margaret J. Carroll Manley, died Apr 1920, age 96 yrs
John T. Manley, died May 21, 1938, buried May 24, 1938 from Benwood, WV
Anthony Manley, died Nov 22, 1877, age 23, John Carroll stepfather
MT' Manley, died Jan 14, 1882, age 21 yrs, (Maggie - James Manley)
Section 5 Northhalf of 186 (no stone)
Purchased by Patrick Manley, June 11, 1887, 195 29th Street, Wheeling
William Joseph Manley, Oct 2, 1911, age 41 yrs, 6 mths, 6 days
Patrick Manley, died May 6, 1915, age 71 yrs
Southwest corner - no name
Mary E. Manley, died Mar 3 1926, buried Mar 5, 1926 age 53 yrs
Bridget Manley, d Aug 9, 1930, buried Aug 13, 1930 age 62yrs(Wheeling)
John J. Manley, d Died 31, 1958, buried Jan 3, 1959, age 74 (Wheeling)
Catharine Rowan Manley, died Sep 8, 1893, age 53, Ireland
Catharine Manley, died June 27, 1874, age 9 mths, (Patrick Manley and Catharine Rowan)
Section 5 Fraction 14 (Big Grey Stone)
Purchased by Anthony Manley, Nov 29,1890, Address-Sr. M. Delellis, Wheeling
Inscription on Stone:
Anthony Manley 1849-1913 age 60 yrs
Mary Manley 1849-1913
On card:
Anthony Manley, died June 9, 1913, age 60 yrs
Mary Manley, died Aug 5, 1913, age 64 yrs
Regina Jackson, died May 11, 1906, age 13 mths
My researcher said Mary Manley (previously reported as listed on the Section 5 card probably belongs on this card as she died June 18, 1893, age 7 yrs, parents Anthony and Mary)
My researcher also found one other Manley buried at the cemetery:
Sister Mdelenllio Manley died Dec 15, 1952, buried Dec 17, 1952 from Sisters Convent, Wheeling
So there you go guys. Does any of this shed any light on anything for you all? Let me again appologize for the errors in my original transmission.
Hope it didn't cause you additional work.
Mike, please note Dave's entries in the message below this one.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: jmanley_at_msn.com, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Genealogy: Manley
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:48:27 +0000
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to include. The John T. Manley who is listed below was 83 yrs old when he died in 1938, thus eliminating him as Bryan's son.
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:30:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Genealogy: Manley
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Hi Joe,
Thanks for working on the burial stuff. There definitely remains work to
prove/disprove connections among all the Manleys. I think obituaries, death certificates, baptisms and possibly
probate records might help but there are a lot of uncertainties. Hopefully we'll find the connecting pieces.
I have been working on putting together a summary page of
the census records for the various families.
There are a couple interesting observations/ questions that arise. I'l try to get that out in the next couple
days.
John T is one of those intriguing cases.
In the 1860 census, there are a James and Margaret with
children Anthony, Mary, Margaret, and Bridget.
The 1870 census has Margaret with John Carroll and all the kids (+10
years age) plus John T. Then the 1880
census, I think, lists Margaret as the stepmother to John and a couple other of
the kids. The 1910 census lists her as
mother again, but has her emigration date earlier than John's.
Bizarre.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Manley/McDonnell
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:19:38 +0000
So many Manleys, so little time. What do you make of this entry in the Marshall County Marriage records? Turns out Margaret was from Belmont Co with parents of Anthony and Mary. Could she have been Bryan's sister or does she match up with something in your records Dave. Odd that she got married the same year that Bryan took out citizenship in Bellaire - so they were both in town at the same time.
Marshall County, WV Marriages 1835-1889 Sorted Alphabetically by Groom Compiled by T. Vernon Anderson. Thanks to Clarice Stanley for her contribution to this file.
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~wvmarsha/grooms.txt
Groom Given Name Age Groom Birthplace Groom's Parents Bride Given Name Age Bride's Birthplace Bride's
Parents Date Bk Pg
Carroll John 34 Ireland Manley Margaret 36w Ireland Anthony & Mary 5 OCT 1866 C3 383
MARSHALL COUNTY CEMETERY INDEX Compiled by SUE ROYAL.
McDonnell, Bess, St. Martin's Cemetery
McDonnell, Bridget, St. Martin's Cemetery
McDonnell, Edward, St. Martin's Cemetery
McDonnell, Leo V., Halcyon Hills Cemetery
McDonnell, Patrick, St. Martin's Cemetery
McDonnell, Marlene L, Halcyon Hills Cemetery
McDonnell, William, Mt. Rose Cemetery
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:23:46 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Manley/McDonnell
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
I believe Margaret's first husband was James Manley (died
between 1860-1866) and that she was the mother of John T and other
children. Her second husband was John
Carroll; the "w" next to her
age could indicate widow. Her maiden
name is unknown at this point, but might emerge from her or her children's
death certificates.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley.1860.wv.htm
The age of Margaret (in Harrison county in 1860) matches
with her being 36 at the time of her marriage to John Carroll in 1866.
The other interesting thing I noticed from the Marshall
marriage records is that there is a Mary A. Manly, who married there in the
1870s, whose age matches that of Margaret's daughter.
Date:
Sun, 23 Mar 2003 21:08:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: census summary page
To: jmanley_at_msn.com
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_census_summary.htm
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: census summary page
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 19:28:56 +0000
Dave, thanks much. I can't believe how orgainized you are. Your layout highlights a few key items of information. Margaret probably came to american after 1853 (since that was when John T. was born in Ireland).
We know Bryan came in 1852, and I think your Peter came around 1854.
I've requested the obit on Margaret J. and John T. from Moundsville - and for Bryan and Edward from Wheeling, so will see if anything new turns up.
My cemetery source now tells me she isn't sure where in their cemetery Bryan is buried - that his name may have been added to the family plot card in error or later. There is another book where the internment data might be found and I am looking into that now.
I also thought Margaret J. was from Belmont county, but I can't find that reference now. It is clear that the family moved to Bellaire after they married (1870 census and marriage record for Mary to John Carter).
Joe
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:26:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: census summary page
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
After one has been doing this a while, it becomes clear
that collecting and tracking the information and the searches done (both
successful and unsuccessful) is key to making connections and avoiding extra
work. So I've put together a few
spreadsheets (census, vital records, baptism/godparents) that are especially
helpful when it comes to potential families.
As far as connecting potential brothers and sisters, I
believe death records can be the most helpful, especially when they list the
same set of parents. Obituaries often
are helpful too when they are long enough to include family information. Baptism records that list godparents names
are another potential way to show blood connections, but the relationships are
not usually spelled out.
Linking the female Manleys may be tough as only Annie
seems to have stuck around Wheeling/Bellaire towards her death. It would be interesting to see how Anthony
and Patrick are connected as they are stable Wheeling folk for many years.
I'm a little confused on Bryan Manley. The Belmont county
records say he died 29 Apr 1898. The
cemetery records show 30 Sept 1898.
Either there is a handwriting error - 4 (Apr) looks like 9 (Sep) - and
they're off by a day OR these are different Bryan Manleys. I don't believe we have seen another Bryan
besides yours so far.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: More info
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:41:13 +0000
O.K. Gang, I have gotten my hands on the Obit for John T. Manley (the guy listed with Margaret Carroll etc on the census forms and buried with the other Manleys at Mt. Calvary. The following is an excerp from the Moundsville paper in 1938:
A solemn high mass of reguiem will be celebrated Tuesday morning in St. James' Catholic church at McMechen for John T. Manley, a former mayor of Benwood and retired veteran employee of the Baltimore and Ohio railroad, who died Saturday at his home, 1912 Ashland Avenue, Benwood.....
Mr. Manley was born in Drumm county, Ireland, February 15, 1856, a son of James and Margaret Tighe Manley. He came to the US and direct to Bellaire, Ohio in 1864. He resided in Benwood since 1880........
Surviving are a second cousin, Miss Margaret Ferguson, at whose home he lived since 1909; a nephew, W.J. Carter of Canton, Ohio and two great nephews, John L. Carter and Charles Carter, both of Canton.
I don't know what to make of this or what help it will be. Does it ring any bells for you guys?
Joe
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:45:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More info
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Hi Joe & Mike,
Nice details - wish all my obits had that level
The Carters are the descendants of John's sister Mary
(remember the marriage record we found) and John Carter. I never found her in the census after 1870 -
they must have moved to Canton or somewhere on the way.
No idea how Margaret Ferguson is connected - must be a
granddaughter of either his maternal or paternal grandmother as she is neither
a Manley or a Tighe ...
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_census_summary.htm
... which bring us to the next interesting
coincidence(?). John's father was James
Manley and his mother was Margaret Tighe.
A Rose Manley married a Michael Tighe and they also lived in Marshall
county in 1880; in addition she lived in Bellaire in 1870 at the same time as
John's family. A brother and a sister from two families marrying each other? -
possible
As far as the details on John go, there is no Drumm
county in Ireland today; maybe it is a town or parish name. The birth year is 3 years later than his naturalization
petition. It's odd that he came to the
U.S. at age 11 four years after the rest of his family showed up in the 1860
census in Harrison Co., WV. With no
direct survivors, I'm not surprised some data is mixed up; maybe one of the
other newspapers of the time got it (more) correct. All in all it's definitely an interesting obituary.
Have you had any luck with Bryan, Patrick or Anthony?
best wishes
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: More info
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 22:40:39 +0000
No luck yet with Bryan, Patrick or Anthony on my part. I have someone checking the Obits in Wheeling for Bryan and Edward and I think Michell is checking the courthouse of Margaret J.'s marriage license. I've run out of leads at the moment and plan to go back though my stuff to see if there is anything else to pursue.
The Drumm thing threw me too. There is no record of a county, parish, barony, township or poor law area by that name. There is a placename "Drummin" in County Mayo (check google on the web). The Mayo location is near Ballyglass south of Castlebar which is one of the Manley areas on your map. This is pretty unscientific. Interesting though, as the area looks a lot like the Ohio Valley.
As for the Tighe/Manley relationships, I wondered if the familys knew each other in the old county, socialized in the new, and love bloomed? I have been told that the immigrants huddled together for support and familarity, but who knows?
Joe
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:47:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More info
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
See Drum midway down the page. With his later birth, there is a shot at finding his baptism if
this is the right place.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/4031/RCPARISH.HTML
Looking at Eircom, Tighe comes up 324 times, 95 in Sligo
and 62 in Mayo, so it's a decent bet we have a Mayo Manley here.
Of the 149 Irish naturalized between 1854 and 1861 in
Wheeling, 30 were from Mayo and 30 were from Galway - a pretty high
concentration from the west. (for 42, county was not identified).
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~wvwags/alien.txt
This is getting too easy ;)
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Irish Ancestors/ Roman Catholic records
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:39:35 -0800
http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&parish=Balla&churchid=1044
Dave, you might want to click the online register and look at the surnames. Gibbons etc. I guess they might be common, but it is interesting to see so many in the same neck of the woods.
Joe
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave
sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Thoughts
on the Manleys
To: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
CC:
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Warning: This is
going to be a long one, so printing it out to go through all the points
probably makes sense!
The finding that James T. was from Drum led me back to my
Manley file and helped catalyze a number of thoughts that have been rumbling
around.
------
Drum does not seem to have been one of the places that
appeared on my map of the Manleys recorded in Tithe/Griffiths surveys in
Ireland. (It's possible they were there
and were not recorded - or were under a different spelling - unknown at this
point.) The map does show an O'Malley,
Peter's wife's maiden name, in a parish adjacent to Drum.
We both have highlighted the existance of birth and
marriage records for Drum parish from 1837.
It is possible to rent microfilm of these and view them at the Mormon
Family History Centers. I don't have
the time to do this, but perhaps you or your researcher could.
Before looking into the microfilm, I think it would make
sense to ask your researcher to locate obituaries from the two Wheeling
newspapers for John T. to see if confirming, clarifying or additional info is
available. His mother Margaret's obits
might similarly be helpful.
-----
My trip back to the Manley file put the early dialogue I
had with Michele/Mike back before my eyes.
(I've added it to the web page
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_joe_emails.htm)
What a wake up call - I had forgotten the baptismal links
between our families.
* 3 children of Peter were godparents to children of
Bryan
* Anthony was godparent to one of Peter's children and
the names of his 4 boys are all among the 7 of Peter's
* Peter was the naturalization witness for John T
-----
Edward, Rose and Margaret were all living in Martin's
Ferry for the 1870 census. Probably
because they attended a different church (i.e. not in Bellaire), the requests
to the diocese did not yield any of their baptism records. It would be a good idea to check on that.
-----
Anthony lived in Wheeling for many years and I'd guess
his children were born and baptized there.
I have worked with the diocese archives there and will follow up to see
if anything can be found. If your
researcher has access to the Wheeling Library, perhaps they could look up his
street address in the directories for the 1865 to 1880 time frame to help me
guide the diocese to the right parish.
Parents names on Anthony and Patrick's death
certificates/information might prove another link or Anthony's obituary,
because he died first, could mention family relationships.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Thoughts on the Manleys
Date:
Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:38:24 -0700
Good ideas Dave.
I will give the Mormon church records a try on the Drumm thing and also try to get obits from Wheeling on John T. and Margaret.
Mike is following up on Margaret J.'s marriage license etc from Marshall County. Seems they had a fire and most of the records were destroyed, by the Mormon Church has some stuff and Mike is going to try to get it.
Will let you know what we find.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>, "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: Thoughts on the Manleys
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:54:37 -0700
Dave/Mike,
I asked my Wheeling contact to look for the Obits on Margaret and John T.
She said they are backlogged, so it may take a while.
I also ordered the Dunn microfilm from LDS - should be in a couple of weeks.
Also ordered a copy of the Bellaire newspaper for the year 1898 (I think Peter and Bryan obits are on that film) from the Ohio Genealogical Society. I am hoping something else might turn up.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the Manleys
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:12:07 -0700
Dave,
One more item. In reviewing the old e-mails you had with Mike, you mentioned that you had Peter's will, but not his entire probate record. Mike was going to check for you for see if she could get more. Then her messages talk about getting sick etc. Did she, or you ever check for the whole file?
Joe
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the Manleys
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
Joe,
I checked a few weeks ago and I do have the whole package,
but have not looked at it closely recently.
It occurs to me that there are a couple things I might possibly find
there - payments to the cemetery and newspapers - that I haven't thought of
before. Can you think of anything else
I should be on the alert for?
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:14:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Thoughts on the Manleys
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY"
<JMANLEY_at_msn.com>,
"Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
I asked my researcher to follow up on the Anthony,
Patrick and Annie certificates and obits.
If she finishes quickly and your backup persists, I'll ask her about
John T. and Margaret.
I poked around the website
http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/index.htm
you sent me with details about Drumm and found some
interesting details about the Manleys.
If you type in Manley, you get a pretty wide range of counties in
Ireland for the name. When you type in
Munnelly and the other variations, there are almost 100 from Mayo, almost
exclusively. I summarized the info
here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_griffiths.htm
I did not pay for access to the parish by parish info,
but 100 family listings of Manley variants means that the 4 parishes or so I
had on that original map understates dramatically the potential places our
Mayo-born ancestors may have lived.
I've seen other Manley researchers talk about the
evolution of the spelling of the surname.
I don't think we should be confident that our ancestors' name was always
spelled Manley.
When the Drumm film comes, please also check for the
marriage of Peter and Mary O'Malley in the early 1850s. Likewise it is probably necessary to be
openminded about possible variations of O'Malley. (Malley, O'Maley, Maley, O'Melia, Melia)
I found one obituary for Peter on that film several years
ago when I was in Bellaire - but a couple things were wrong - it said he was
married (widowed) and had 4 children (only 3 were living at the time.) Perhaps a second pair of eyes will find a
corrected second version. I hope the
info for Bryan will be better.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Fwd: Research
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:40:39 +0000
Mike/Dave,
Here is what my researcher turned up in the Bellaire Health Department records on births and deaths:
>>
>>Birth Record #2 (1875-1884).
>>Manley, Margaret - born Dec. 24, 1876, Bellaire, parents- Bryan Manley & Margaret McDonald.
>>Manley, John (in index), Furgus (on the page) - born Mar. 9, 1879,
>>Bellaire, parents- Bryan Manley & Margaret McDonnell.
>>He is the only John I found.
>>Manley, Ella - born Nov. 30, 1879, Bellaire, parents- William Manley & Bridget Devan.
>>
>>Bellaire Death.
>>Manley, William M. - died Feb. 6, 1920, Bellaire, born May 28, 1852 in Scotland, father- Peter.
>>
>>Birth Record #1 (1867-1875).
>>Manley, -------, born May 4, 1869, Pultney Twp., female, parents- Brian Manley & Maggie Manley.
This is probably Mary (Marianna).
>>Manley, Margaret T., born Aug. 12, 1870, Bellaire, parents- E. Manley & Mary Mehen.
>>Manley, Agnes, born June 8, 1874, Bellaire, parents- Edward Manley & Margaret Mehen.
>>Manley, Joseph F., born Oct. 18, 1874, Bellaire, parents- Bryan Manley & Margaret McDonald.
>>
>>Martins Ferry Deaths.
>>Manley, George W., - died Dec. 1, 1948 in Martins Ferry hospital, born Sept. 23, 1873.
>>Manley, Michael Francis, - died May 13, 1937 at 1st St. in Martins Ferry, born Feb. 13, 1863.
>>Manley, William Melvin, - died Dec.7, 1999 at E.O.R.H. ( Martins Ferry hospital), born Apr. 26, 1906.
>>
>>Could not find the birth of James Manley or the deaths on Mary before 1910 or Margaret after 1910.
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the Manleys
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
Joe,
I have Peter's whole file and looked at it last
night. I did not see anything
new/unexpected in it. There is no
itemized mention of an obituary or cemetery payment. It did list his funeral home - Brailly – but they are no longer
in business and I was previously unsuccessful in tracking down the
records.
The only oddity is the mention of his son James as
surviving - I have never found his death record or his 1900 census record (or
thereafter).
--- JOSEPH MANLEY <JMANLEY_at_msn.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> One more item. In reviewing the old e-mails you had
with Mike, you mentioned that you had Peter's will,
> but not his entire probate record. Mike was going to
check for you for see if she could get more. Then
> her messages talk about getting sick etc. Did she,
or you ever check for the whole file?
>
> Joe
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Moundsville obits
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
Who did you contact to get the Moundsville obits?
I wonder if they might be able to find them for Peter
(Mar 26 1898) and William Manley (May 28 1920).
thanks,
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Update
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:17:13 +0000
O.K. Guys - I just finished going through the microfilm of the Bellaire newspaper for 1898. As I mentioned before, only 12 months of the archives remains for this publication (fire a few years ago). I bought a copy of the microfilm from the Ohio Genealogical Society in the hopes that it would have some follow-up or sidebar stories on the family.
Unfortunately, I don't think this exercise has yielded anything of great significance for us. I did find the Obituaries on Peter and Bryan that we already knew about. In looking for all other names that we have discussed, I found the following:
1. John T. Manley returned from the Elks convention in Columbus
2. Ticket Agent Sherry, of the B & O is at Girard, Pa for a vacation
3. Margaret M. Ward's house on South Guernsey Street was sold.
That is it.
The Mormon Church called today, the film for Drum is in. Will check it out and get back you.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Moundsville obits
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:56:47 +0000
Dave, my Moundsville Obits came from the Moundsville City-County Library
tele (304) 845-6911. Talk to Edna, Cindy or Diane.
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Moundsville obits
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Thanks Joe. I'll
give them a call.
Heritage Quest added the 1860 census indices to their website last week. Unfortunately our library's ISP changed a server which has made the service unavailable for the time being. I'll let you know what I find on the Manleys when it comes up again.
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 03:35:25 -0400
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
From: "Moundsville I.L.L."
Subject: Obits
There were no obits in the Moundsville Daily Echo for William and Peter Manley.
Sincerely,
Cindy / Reference
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: More info
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:32:30 +0000
Dave,
I was typing a lengthy message to you and Mike on my progess todate. Can you let me know if you got it (my screen went blank and I am not sure it transmitted)
In an earlier message, you mentioned you had access to an 1860 census index via Heritage Quest. Could you check it for a McDonald or McDonnell in the Bellaire area. Bryan's wife was Margaret and Margaret's mother was Mary or Julia. They married in 1868 and by 1890, mother in law was living with them. I can't believe that Bryan, who couldn't read or write, who was working as a laborer, could have met his future wife anywhere but in Bellaire. (Margaret's records said she came to US in 1851.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Manley update
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:20:52 +0000
Dave/Mike,
The library in Wheeling has just responded to my request for information from the Wheeling newspapers etc. No Obits on Edward or Margaret J. Carroll/Manley are in their records.
They did find an Obit on Bryan. It reads: DIED - MANLEY -On thursday, September 29, 1898 at 4:30 p.m. at his late residence, No 3454 Noble Street, Bellaire, Ohio, Bryan Manley. Funeral services at St. John's Catholic church, Bellaire, Ohio, Saturday morning at 9 o'clock at Mt. Calvary.
This is the first time I've seen the Noble street address. I thought he lived on Gurnsey Street.
The library also check a book for me titled: "Mt. Calvary Cemetery Records, September 1872-1900" by Audra Rickey Wayne. The page they photocopied showed the following:
Name Date Age Birthplace Father Mother
MANLEY
Anthony Nov 22,1877 23 Ireland (John Carroll stepfather)
Bryan Sep 30,1898 68 Ireland
Catherine Sep 8,1893 53 Ireland
Catharine Jun 27,1874 9mths Wheeling Patrick Manley Catherine Rowan
Mary Jun 18,1893 7 Anthony Mary
Mt' Jan 14, 1882 21 (single) Jas. Manley Mt' Carroll
I don't think the above is new information, but wanted to give it to you anyway to see if this sequencing (1872-1900) gives you any new thoughts. When I compared it to the information I got from the young clerk in the cemetery office, it suggests to me that the familar relationship, if there was one, was between the Manley/Carroll group and the Bryan group. The cemetery records said John T. Manley bought the plot in 1878. I think this is the John T. Carroll/Manley as he would have been 26 at the time. From his family, we have Briget, Margaret J, John T., Anthony, Mary and Mt'in the same plot with Bryan. Catherine, from Patrick's linage (I am not sure which family this Patrick is connected to) is there too and appears to be an unexpected death since Patrick Manley went on to buy a seperate plot in 1887.
I have been busy checking the "County Drum" microfilm and have not found any Manleys yet (including the dervations/alternative spellings). Have found tons of O'Malley, Malley, Devane, Loftus etc, but none that would fit our combinations, years or age groupings. Have a lot more to review, so hopefully, something will turn up.
Lastly, I have found a James and William Manley in the Social Security Death Index that might be part of Bryan's lost tribe. Have sent for their full record and will see what it shows for birthplace etc.
Joe
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More
info
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC:
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Joe,
I looked for the McDonnells/McDonalds in 1860 and did not
find Margaret's family in Belmont County.
She is with Bryan in 1870 and her mother Julia is living with them. See the attached image.
I also have come blank so far with Bryan Manley in 1860, after trying multiple spelling variants in Ohio and (West) Virginia. I have a feeling this was a tough year to find everyone. For my Sherry family I have found only 4 out of 8 siblings, despite the fact they all should have been in Belmont county.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: More info
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003
17:29:21 +0000
Thanks for trying.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
Joseph.Manley_at_med.va.gov
Subject: County Drum
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003
16:45:12 +0000
Dave/Mike
I completed the review of
the "County Drumm" microfilm. It contained photocopies of the
orginial chuch records for Baptisms and Marriages for varying years from the
1830s-1870s. First off, no mention of
Peter and Mary O'Malley. Sorry Dave. There were tons of Malleys and O'Malley,
just nothing in the right combination.
There were also scores of
other surnames that figure into our ancestry at some time, but again, no direct
link that I could detect. Here are the closest to something that I could find.
Maybe one of these will mean something to one of you.
15 Apr 1838 Baptism James
of Edward Manley and Mary Murphy, wit Martin Moran & Mary Langen
31 May 1838 Baptism Honora
of Michael McDermott & Mary Manley, wit Pat Livanielty & Catherine
McDermott
14 Sept 1839 Baptism
Eugene of Patrick Manley & Anne Gyney, wit Mary Reville
26 June 1842 Baptism John
of Anthony Manley and bridget Ford, wit Gundy Garman
June 1843 Baptism
Catherine of James Carroll and Ellen Cunnif, wit Patrick Feiny & Crete
Gorman
7 Feb 1844 witnesses at
wedding David McDonnelll and Mary Conroy
3 Feb 1845 Marriage of Pat
McDonnell & Mary Mulny, wit Pat Carroll & Ellen McDonnell
16 July 1848 marriage of
James McDonnell to Mary Loftus, wit Pat McDonnell & Briget Devany
14 Sep 1876 marriage
Anthony Monnely (father James Monnely) to Bridget McLawess (father Walter
Lawless)
The above includes
"all" the entries for manleys. Looks like Dave was right, there were
very few in this county. I am now wondering if "Drum" was really
"Drummin" which is another area in Mayo? (In case anyone has
forgotten, we learned from his Obit that John T Manley (of Margaret Carroll)
said he was from "County Drumm".
I have ordered the
microfilm on Marshall County Marriages from the Mormon Church to look for
anything on Margaret Manley's marriage to Carroll. Will let you know what I
find.
Date:
Thu, 15 May 2003 08:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: County Drum
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, Joseph.Manley_at_med.va.gov
Joe,
I'm sorry to hear that your efforts went unrewarded. Hopefully we will find that right place to look. Given he was a mayor of a key Wheeling suburb, I would bet John also had obituaries in the two Wheeling papers. Maybe one of them got it right.
The woman at the Wheeling Area Genealogical Society that I contacted for research help on Patrick and Anthony has not come through after a month of exchanges. So I will likely check back with the woman who had been helping me in Bellaire and ask her to go over the river.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re:
Manley/Ohio Co.
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003
22:08:32 -0700
Super. thanks. I'll keep
my fingers crossed.
The Mormon Church came
through with the Marshall county marriage records (1850-1875) and I did locate
John Carroll/Margaret Manley marriage license etc. Unfortunately, no new
information other than confirmation that Margaret Manley's partents (John T.
Manley's grandparents), were Anthony and Mary Tighe.
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:42:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Manley/Ohio Co.
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
The latest Manley research results are in and unfortunately there is only marginally incremental information.
The John T. obituary from the Wheeling Intelligencer seems to be identical to the one from Moundsville. One thing I noticed which was absent from your previous transcription is that it clearly says he was born in "Drumm, County Mayo, Ireland. Two articles from the News Register were brief and added nothing new.
One thing from the Intelligencer looked interesting and that was a reference to the B&O Veterans association. I wonder if they are still around and what kind of records they may have. A lot of my SHERRYs worked for the B&O.
The Anthony Manley death record has a suspect birth date (too late) 1853 (about 10 years later than I would guess) - which would not work with marriage in 1864. The curious thing is that William Manley of Bellaire, my gg grandfather was the informant. There is still no direct link between Anthony and my family but the number of connections is intriguing. ( He is not mentioned in my Peter's will, but his father was Peter according to his wedding record, he was a godfather to one of Peter's children, etc.)
The Patrick Manley obits and death record were sparse - no parent's names, no undertaker, no survivors, only the church where his services were held - Immaculate Conception.
Similarly Annie Joyce's obits and death record added little - confirmed her father as Edward but named her mother Mary Kilker instead of Rose as on her marriage record.
I'll have to think about the next step - perhaps seeing what the Diocese has. We are running low on the obvious sources.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Re:
Manley/Ohio Co.
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003
17:37:26 +0000
thanks for the info Dave.
I looked further for a Drumm but could only find "Drummin" in County
Mayo (which is a place and works with your earlier research on where Manleys
lived, and would have sounded right if people heard someone say it etc) Could
this be it, or do you have other thoughts?
RE: B & O vets, could find nothing on the net or from sending some
e-mails to some of the railroad hobby sites.
The family connections
keep appearing. I still think is less than consequential that all these Manleys
ended up in the Bellaire area. By the way, in playing with Ancestry.com, I
found a John Manley in the 1850 census for Belmont county, Richland Twp. He
comes up in the search function, but the link to the census images doesn't come
up to the page with his entry. I am looking through all the Richland images for
that time to see if I can find him. This has happened to me a lot with
Ancestry.
The system in those days
was for one family or member to come over and then sponsor the others. We know
that Bryan came to U.S. in the early 1850s and would have been 10-12 years old
at the time. There had to be relatives he was traveling with and he had to live
somewhere. Maybe we are erring in looking east into WVA and PA and should be
looking in Ohio for the earlier family threads.
Ancestry shows 119 Manleys
in Ohio in the 1850 census.
I am out of options also.
Need to go back to the files and think about this from different angles. Will
let you know if anything comes to mind.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: manley research
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003
18:19:08 +0000
O.K. Guys, I have made
more progress in tracking down dead ends.
I found John Manley in the
1850 Belmont County census. Unfortunately, he was born in Viginia. Likewise,
the John McDonnel in 1850 census was born in Canada.
Dave, I notice in the
speadsheet you gave Mike and I re: manleys in Belmont, Marshall, Ohio and
Wetzel counties that there is a Rose Manley in the 1860, 1870 and 1880 census.
She is married to Michael Tighe. We recently learned that Margaret Manley
Carroll's maiden name was Tighe. Is is possible that Rose Manley was related to
Margaret's first husband James, and Rose's husband (Michael) is related to
Margaret Tighe Manley Carroll? and possibly they all came from the same place?
Lastly, Mike, don't know
if you noticed before but there is a Milton Worls in the 1880 census for
Belmont and Ancestry.com lists him as having married Nettie Poter in Belmont
county on 26 Mar 1878.
Joe
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:27:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: manley research
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Taking a look at Tighe here,
http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm
it appears Tighes were present in Mayo, Sligo, and Roscommon in the Griffiths Valuations of the mid 1800s. There are about 50 in each county which would seem to indicate it is a reasonally common but not superabundant name.
There certainly could be a connection between Margaret Tighe Manley and Rose's husband Michael. I did some work trying to track Rose's family after the 1880 census but have not found them yet. When heritagequest or ancestry get the 1900 census indices online, a lot of currently dormant paths will be possible to pursue.
Working on some other stuff now and will turn my attention back in a couple weeks to see what other avenues (Wheeling diocese, etc.) we can pursue.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: more
research
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003
21:25:42 +0000
Dave/Mike,
I asked Kathy to check a
few things for me in Bellaire. Please have a look at the list below and let me
know if you want me to request documentation on anything.
In case you don't
recognize some of the names, Dominic Conroy was the witness/sponser on Bryan's
citizenship papers. I assume they either worked together, were neighbors, or
possibly came from the same place.
The Manley and Manle
entries look interesting too. I have never heard of Carl Manley before.
Let me know what you
think.
Joe.
>From: Kathy Rothert
<rothertk_at_1st.net>
>To: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
>Subject: Re: more
research
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003
15:07:08 -0400
>
>Hi Joe,
>Wanted to let you know
what/who I found at the courthouse. First of all I
>have the
Naturalization paper for Domnick Conroy & his marriage to Mary
>O'Donald for you. The
Marriage Records searched were from 1899 to 1912
>(that the way the
books are set up). There were no McDonnell marriages in
>that range. Did write
down the McDonald names because sometimes they seem to be interchanged with
McDonnell.
>Here is the list:
>Marriage Record # 17
Jan. 1, 1899 - Feb. 13, 1900.
>McDonald, Lulu M.
(born in Wheeling, WV, parents-Harry McDonald & Alice
>Harris) to Thomas G.
McGowan on 26Apr1899.
>McDonald, Flora (born
in Bridgeport, OH, parents-James McDonald & Josephine Hull) to William
Headley on 9Jun1900.
\
>Marriage Record # 18
Sept. 1900 - Feb. 1902.
>Manley, Ella to
William Sherry on 9Aug1900. No parents were listed on this one & not much
else.
>McDonald, Matilda
(born in Ireland, parents-Robert McDonald & Eliza
>McAtanley) to Camille
Gosseye on 6Nov1901.
>Marriage Record # 19
Feb. 1902 - Aug. 1903.
>Manle, Kittie
(widow-didn't list late husbands name)(born in Bellaire, OH,
>parents-William Cullen
& Mary Neal) to Conrad Rumbach on 15May1902.
>McDonald, Patrick J.
(born in Bellaire, OH, parents-Owen McDonald & Mary Gallaghan) to Anna O.
Conley on 22Jan1903.
>Marriage Record # 20
Aug. 1903 - Sept. 1905.
>No Manley or
McDonnell.
>Marriage Record # 21
Sept. 1905 - Sept. 1907.
>Didn't write down the
parents names in this book or the dates.
>McDonald, Foster (born
in Braddock, PA) to Emma Walker.
>McDonald, Charles
(born in Barnesville, OH) to Jennie McCort.
>McDonald, Clarence E.
(born in Minneapolis, MN) to Elsie L. Forrester.
>McDonald, Melvina
(born in Marshall Co., WV) to Chas. E. McMahon.
>Marriage Record # 22
Sept. 1907 - Nov. 1909.
>Manley, A. Carl (born
in Fairmont, WV, parents-Thomas S. Manley & Belle Steele) to Theresa Remy
on 24Dec1908.
>Manley, Edward (born
in Bellaire, OH, parents-Bryan Manley & Margaret McDonald) to Mary Worls on
19Jan1909.
>McDonald, Mary A.
(born in Ohio Co., WV) to Clarence A. Dew (didn't write
>the parents or the
date down on this one for some reason).
>McDonald, Margaret
Lucy (born in Stewartsville, OH, parents-Owen McDonald &
>Mary Gallaher) to
Patrick Finnegan on 23Feb1909.
>Marriage Record #23
Nov. 1909 - May 1912.
>No Manley or
McDonnell.
>
>Do you know of a
relative named Frank Henry O'Donnell? He came over about
>1882 from Belle
Mullet, County Mayo, Ireland. He may have been in the U.S.
>Military. His
Naturalization papers says he has an Honorable Discharge certificate. Have a
copy of the front for you.
>
>Let me know if you
want any of the above Marriage Certificates I have listed in the books &
I'll get them for you.
>Kathy
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:40:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: more research
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
So you are also using Kathy! I wonder whether she has put together.
My thoughts:
William and Ella are my great-grandparents.
The only Catherine ("Kittie") married to a Manley I can find was the wife of Patrick (1834-1915) so that does not make sense.
The only Thomas I have was born in the early 1800s so that does not work either.
Fairmont WV is all the way over in Marion county so he was probably born there in the 1880s.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY"
<JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: more research
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:50:21 -0700
Should I order any of the
documents?- or do you already have the stuff on William/Ella etc?
Don't know if Kathy thinks
we are in touch. Probably so. Don't know about the ethics of her telling
various customers we are asking about the same ancestors. Probably not good for
business to be too open and helpful, we might share the proceeds of her past
efforts etc. Don't know what I would do if I were her.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Re:
Manley/Ohio Co.
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003
21:31:33 +0000
Dave, let me come back to
the Drumm issue for a moment. What is your best guess as to what area this
applies? Have a look at this web site of the parishes in Mayo.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~deesegenes/maps.html
If you click on the links
for the parishes listed and study the maps carefully, you will find that every
parish except the last one has an area that has the word Drum in it:
Drumkerghta; Drumminrachill: Drumroeras, Drummin; Drumminaghn; Drumneen.
I haven't figured out how
to overlay the parishes with a map of Mayo yet.
Will be trying at home
tonight. Am I missing something here?
Joe
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:08:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Manley/Ohio Co.
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
The Gaelic word "Drom or Drumm" means ridge, so any of the parishes that has hilly territory would seem to be a candidate for a townland with Drumm in the name. The website you pointed me towards shows 5 of the 40/50/60?+ parishes in Mayo.
I really thought the Balla/Drumm parish that you searched was going to be the answer to finding our homeland link. I'm beginning to think it might be time to think about working with one of the research centers in Mayo. With a reasonably good birth date and details (parents, etc.) for John Manley, it might be the step to take. The only issue is that there are 2 centers in the county. I would hope contacting both would not be necessary.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Re:
Manley/Ohio Co.
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003
16:40:37 +0000
Dave, thanks for
explaining the Drumm thing. Maybe it will mean something to native
(dialect/use/slang) and give them some clue to begin search. I think we should
include it for the research service submission.
I am game for using the
Irish research service. Would you mind waiting a couple of weeks before we do?
I have asked the LDS church for the Marshall County death records in the hopes
that a record of James Manley's death may give us further clues (his date of
birth etc.). In the meantime, I think we should try to accumulate as much data
as we can and agree upon which to give the research service.
I think we have a good
birth date for John T. and his immigration date from the obit. Not sure what we
should use for James and Margaret for birth or immigration. For Bryan, I worked
backward from the census data (and date of the actual census) to narrow the
birthdate to a two month period.
For Anthony and Mary
Tighe, I think we could approximate their birth decade by assuming they married
in their 20s and produced a child soon after (Mary's birthdate minus 21
years?). I don't think we know the names of Jame's parents, do we?
Would we include data on
any of the other relatives (i.e. Peter, William, Bryan birthdates/immigration).
If they muck about in church records during the research, they may come across
something.
As for which end of the
country to contact, I am partial to the North. Given your data on Manley
population densities, and the fact that William was born in Scotland (One of
the books I read on Ireland said they often went to Scotland for the harvest
season to make money, like migrant workers). While they could of made this trip
from Westport on a regular basis, I wondered if the Bellina end of Mayo would
be more likely. The web site mentions something about letting them know if we
don't know which end to start with - sort of implying they get this often and
have some way to sort it out. You have been at this a lot longer than me, what
does your intuition tell you (north or south)?
Joe
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Manley/Ohio Co.
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Joe,
Your email helped me focus on one path we have not pursued - the immigration data. I did not find my Manleys in the Irish to America book series when I looked several years ago but have not checked any other Manleys. (The books were at the Oakland LDS center.) While the data maybe limited and not give their hometown, seeing the other passengers who traveled with them may help in sorting out what village they were from.
The other issue we may wrestle with is the spelling. I recently looked at the Irish phone directory and Manleys are few and Munnellys are many. I would hope anyone doing a search would be flexible enough to look for all the variations.
I'd employ the 25 Euro option on those whose details we know well - John T. (with approximate birth year and parent's names and a later time frame more likely to have existing records). Bryan's lack of parent's names might not make that as worthwhile.
For the 75 Euro option, I'd send them all the names, dates and relationships we have on the Ohio Valley Manleys and ask them to see whether any of it sticks.
I think your right about the north. My Devans are likely from the north as the wife's maiden name Gilboy is fairly rare and almost exclusively found in the Ballina area.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: manley/carroll
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003
21:56:50 +0000
Dave/Mike,
I am confused again. In
trying to sort out some the Manley/Carroll relationships, it appears from my
records that in addition to John T., they had a son named Anthony. The census
says he was born in 1852 in Pennsylvania. This would have been 2 years after
their arrival in U.S. He died 22 Nov 1877 and is buried in Mt. Calvary.
Do you guys have any idea
where he died? I think Dave had Kathy checking on an "Anthony", not
sure it was this one. I am asking because the death certificate might list the
place of his birth (ergo the place the family came to when first immigrating).
This would give us somewhere to look in the 1850 census for the rest of the
family. 1877 is fairly recent for records.
Have either of you done
further research on Anthony?
Joe
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:57:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: manley/carroll
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Joe,
I'm familiar with 3 Anthonys.
Son of Peter and Mary - died 1882 in Belmont co.
Anthony of Wheeling - died 1913 in Wheeling
Son of James and Margaret-died 1877?*
*This is not in either of the Belmont co or Marshall co. death transcriptions online (nor is James Manley). Maybe he died in Ohio co., WV, elsewhere or was not recorded.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re:
Manley/Ohio Co.
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003
21:46:02 -0700
Dave, I have had another
brain storm and went back to the Drummin name. In searching the web, I found 18
"placenames" of Drummin in Ireland. One in County Carlow; 6 in County
Clare;4 in Galway; 1 in Offaly; 1 in Roscommon; 1 in Tepperary; 3 in Wicklow;
AND ONE IN COUNTY MAYO. The only in County Mayo is in the Poor Law Union of
Ballina - the Civil Parish of Ballynahaglish.
Ballynahaglish is one of
the parishes that you found to have a high number of Manleys. I think the sent
me the following reference once:
http//www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/4031/RCPARISH.HTML
which indicates that the
LDS Church has a film of the parish records for 1832-1910. I am thinking that
it may be worth me ordering same and seeing if Bryan, James, Margaret Tighe and
whatever others who were born or married after 1832 might be on there. This
would delay the research center request a little longer, but I thought it might
be worth the effort.
What do you think?
Joe
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Manley/Ohio Co.
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <JMANLEY_at_msn.com>
Joe,
I'm not in a big hurry. Give it a shot. I hope it works out.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: LDS search/Irish
research service
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003
20:08:05 +0000
Mike/Dave,
I have been looking at my
files trying to figure out what people/dates to look for in reviewing the LDS
fillm on Drummin and to request research from the company in Ireland on John T.
The LDS files contain
Marriages 1829-1850, 1848-1864, 1865-1880 and baptisms 1830-1851, 1854-1879 and
1865-1880 for the civil parishes of Ballynahaglish and Kilbelfed. I thought I
would check the following:
Births/Baptisms
Margaret Tighe 1830-1832
James Manley 1833
Bryan Manley 1839/1840
Anthony Manley 1845
Margaret McDonnell 1848
John T. Manley Feb 15, 1552/3
Marriages
Peter and Mary Manley 1840-50
James and Margaret Manley 1850-1852
Anthony and Mary Manley >1860
Anthony and Mary Tighe <1830
Is there anyone else I
should be looking for? What do you think about the
dates listed. The John T.
threw me a little. The obit I had said he was born
in 1856, but that couldn't
be right as his brother and sister were older
than that. I am guessing
that he was born in 1852 and his parents set out
for U.S. so soon after his
birth that he couldn't travel safely.
Joe
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LDS search/Irish research service
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
Those look like the right names to look for, but I'd probably put a 3-5 year window on each side to capture all of the flaky dates we have seen. My only other comment is to look for Munnellys and other variants of Manley. I don't remember if I have mentioned this before, but I recently checked the Irish online phone book for Manleys in Mayo and there were few, while Munnellys were abundant. I'd guess some names changed on the voyage over, especially if Manley was the preferred spelling in the U.S.
regards
Dave
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003
14:48:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michele Powell"
<michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Mt. Calvary
Cemetery Readings
To: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Joe and Dave,
My son Gary and I made a trip to Mt. Calvary in Wheeling
today. We had luck with two of the
groups that had the large stones. The
other one of Section 5 Northhalf of 186 marked "No Stone" on Patrick
Manley must be there somewhere, but Gary couldn't find it. The office was closed today (Sat.). My question on this is when it states
"No Stone" does it mean there is no BIG stone, or No Stones at
all--just the blank ground? Do you
know? I thought you might since you,
Joe, wrote the email on 3/18/2003.
I saw a couple of differences on the other two sections. Gary took pictures of them, as well. They were relatively easy to find.
The section purchased by John T. Manley had about a 6' pillar
with MANLEY on the bottom of the front.
On the front section it had:
John T. 1856-1938 B.P.O.E. 419.
The right side had the names listed downward: Anthony 1857-1877, Mary A. 1858-1878, Maggie 1860-1882, Bridget
1861-1926. The back section said
downward: MOTHER, Margaret
1825-1920. The left side is blank. There are markers in three corners of the
plot with the letter M on it. The plot
is big enough for 8 or 10 people.
The section purchased by Anthony Manley marker looked
square-like about 4' tall. The front
section says downward: FATHER, Anthony Manley,
1843-1913. The back section says
downward: MOTHER, Mary Manley,
1849-1913. There were no plot markers
in the ground to indicate the size.
The section purchased by Patrick Manley wasn't located. We will have to go back whenever someone in
the office can help us.
Now I know that I am light years behind the two of you in this
research. As Dave said, Anthony Manley,
who died June 9, 1913 was not 6 years old, but 70 years old! He was born in 1843 and Mary was his wife
(born 1849). That puts them more on a
level with Bryan. As far as Margaret
(born 1825) for mother for Bryan, it depends on Bryan's date of birth.
That's all the information I have at the moment. You will get the pictures when I finish
taking the rest of the roll.
Mike
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY"
<jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: LDS
search/Irish research service
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003
17:07:51 +0000
O.K. Gang. I am one step
closer to contracting with the research service in Ireland. As Dave predicted,
my check of the LDS records did not reveal anything conclusive. The records
contained many entries of Manleys, Monnellys, Loftus, McDonnells etc, but none
that fit tightly into our family tree. I found Bryan Monelly, Brien Munnelly, Anthony
Manley, P. Manley, William Manly, Mary Manley, Anthony Manly, Edman Manly,
Peter Monelly, James Manly, but no Tighes. Dates, spouses, children don't match
anything with us.
I think the key to finding
"home" is either: finding out where our ancestors lived when they
first arrived in America (prior to Ohio/WVA) or finding out the name of a town
in Ireland where any of them came from. As Dave said, our best source for the
moment is John T. and the likelihood that Drumm will mean something to the research
service in Ireland or that the Tighe parents etc will connect to something.
Before we sign the
research contract however, I had one more idea of how to narrow the search and
wondered what you guys thought of it. We know from the Obits that John T. came
directly to Bellaire when he immigrated. I had Kathy Rothert check the
Naturalization records in Belmont and she said there is nothing on file for
John T. The obits also said that John moved to Benwood in 1880 (age of 24). I
wonder if the Marshall County Courthouse would have a record of the
naturalization actions filed after 1880 and if his would be there? He was
elected to the city council in 1882 and city clerk in 1886, and Mayor in 1906.
You would think he would have to be a citizen to hold some of those jobs.
Unfortunately, most of the naturalization records I have seen so far have just
listed country of origin, but a few went much further (I think depending on the
ability of the filer to read and write and the diligence of the courthouse
clerk.
I am not sure of the best
way to check the Marshall County records. I could asked Kathy Rothert to drive
over there (I think she did something for you Dave in Wheeling). Mike, I think
you were in contact with Marshall county when we were looking for death records
on James Manley - do you have any way of checking. I am going to the local LDS
church tonight (to close out the Mayo microfilm) and will check their library
to see if they have any other records from Marshall County.
What do you guys think
about the Marshall County idea? and about the Irish Research Service?
Joe
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:28:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LDS search/Irish research service
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
I think we end up at the Irish research service but have fun along the way!
I took the opportunity during lunch to see if any of the early 1900s censuses would have more precise dates for naturalization. It turns out 1920 does, but ancestry.com does not have Benwood images or names indexed for that census (1/2 of Ohio County seems to be missing). So I hopped over to Heritagequest and after scrolling through a few pages found the attached. Don't bother trying it print it out, but use the magnifying glass on the menu bar to blow it up so that you can see it.
There is no telling how reliable any of the info is. 1857 for John T.'s birth looks late, and he and his mother Margaret definitely did not come over together in 1866. In fact it's obvious someone not in the family gave the info as they did not even know her name. I don't remember a niece named Ferguson (or was that in the obit) and James and Rose Manley are new names.
We may get lucky on the naturalization or not. Probably not but it is worth a try to the Marshall co., Ohio co., or Belmont co. courthouses, and we'll learn who sponsored his naturalization.
The other avenue that might be helpful is to check the Irish to America series (Filby I think is the author) to see if John T. (and for that matter all the other Manleys; Peter was not) is listed. The Oakland FHC has copies; perhaps Seattle's will. The probability of a town listing is low, but the fellow passengers might be helpful somehow.
I still have not written to the Wheeling Diocese for baptism records for the children of Anthony and Patrick. The German priests in Pittsburgh wrote the parents' hometowns for my ancestors (this path has been keeping me busy), but the Irish there did not. But that is potentially another possibility.
One thing holding me back is that I do not know to which parish they belonged. Either Mike or Kathy should take a look at the Wheeling directories for the 1860 to 1880 period to see where the Manleys were living; that may be useful also to see then John T. moved to Benwood.
For that matter, it might be interesting to check over a longer period to help locate them where we have not found them in the censuses. Hopefully ancestry or heritagequest finishes the 1900 census because we have 30 year gaps for a lot of Manleys.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_census_summary.htm
One last thought on Tighes - I believe there may be variable spellings there as well.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: LDS
search/Irish research service
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003
18:58:58 +0000
Good news. It seems the
city clerk for Benwood just left office after 15 years on the job. She was the
key person in doing all their reseach for their city's 150th annivesary and is
willing to check Courthouse/City/Newspaper records for me on John T.since she
is out of work at this time.
I talked with her about
checking Election Commission filings, citizenship, civil service, will/probate
etc. I think we should give her a little time to work on this before we go to
the Ireland research option. With John T's late arrival, old enough to know
where he came from, public positions held etc - he almost has to have left some
clues somewhere.
Joe
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:35:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LDS search/Irish research service
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
With her background, I bet she could find some interesting things about John T., hopefully something really helpful.
I am putting together a list for Kathy Rothert, and this is the Manley component. To prevent duplication of efforts, could you please take a look and let me know if I'm asking for anything already researched or being researched.
St. Clairsville
obituaries
Belmont papers (Chronicle, Gazette)
Peter Manley (Mar 26, 1898)
William Manley (May 28, 1920)
Wheeling
directories
Manleys 1864-1885 (Wheeling)
James Joyce 1864-1885 (Wheeling)
Sherry, Manley, Coyle, Owens (Bellaire section of 1874,
1875, 1877, 1879, 1880 Wheeling directories)
http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/main/WHCITYDR.HTM
naturalization records
Anthony Manley
Patrick Manley
birth records
children of
Anthony Manley 1863-1888
Patrick Manley 1863-1888
James Joyce 1863-1888
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: LDS
search/Irish research service
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003
16:30:18 +0000
Dave, sorry I was so slow
in responding - I wanted to double check all my files. I don't see any
duplication in the research assignments. One thing I did notice was your
request for Peter's obit from the Belmont paper. I bought the microfilm of the
Belaire Herald newspaper for 1898 (almost the only year to survive the fire)
and could look up the obit for you on it, if you like
Joe.
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:53:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LDS search/Irish research service
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Thanks for the offer Joe. I already have the obit from the Herald. I may have already checked the St. Clairsville papers but was not diligent back then about documenting where I had searched and not found
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: LDS
search/Irish research service
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003
14:45:55 +0000
Dave/Mike, I know there
are no marriage or death records on the key players. I had not checked for birth. Dave, would it be possible to
include a birth record check for three of the sons of Bryan? I am thinking
Furgnson - Mar 1879; James - Oct 1882; and William - May 1886. These are the
dates according to the 1900 census. If William and James were incorrectly
reported (switched), then the Priest James Manley from the 1920 and 1930 census
for North Carolina would work. Otherwise, it doesn't look like our guy.
Joe
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:09:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Wheeling Research
To: "Joe Manley" <jmanley_at_msn.com>, "Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
The latest from Kathy... I did not ask her about Manley births in Belmont Co. yet, but will have her take a look when I make my next list.
Kathy Rothert <rothertk_at_1st.net> wrote: Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:42:49 -0400
To: dave sherry
From: Kathy Rothert
Subject: Wheeling Research
Hi Dave,
I've got some info (Wheeling births/City directories) for you in the form of the attachment above.
There are 3 pages today.
Kathy
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com,
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Manleys in PA
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003
20:58:18 +0000
O.K. gang. I am grasping
at straws again. I got to thinking about Margaret Ferguson (woman living in
John T. Manley's home in Benwood listed as "servant", Niece, cousin
in the 1910,1920, 1930 census) and as niece in his obit. The census for all
years says he was born in PA. The records on Anthony (John's brother) said PA
as birthplace.
Figuring that Bryan had to
have landed somewhere in American with some relative (brother, uncle, parents
etc) and lived somewhere from 1852-1866 when he surfaced in Bellair - and
knowing that Margaret McDonnell and her mom arrived from somewhere in 1866 on
their own - I got to figuring that the Manley roots must run through PA - and
more likely along the B & O railroad as Marge and Mom made it to Bellair on
own (also realizing that there was a huge migration going on along the rails at
that time.
So, I looked in Ancestry
for people born in Ireland who lived in PA in 1870 (I know, not very scientific
but I am grasping here. I counted households and this is what I found:
County Manleys Fergusons O'Malleys McDonnells Tighes
Bradford 1 5 3
Columbia 5
1
Crawford 1
3
Erie 1
Luzerne 14 6
14 19 39
Mifflin 1 1
Montgomery 1 3
Schuykill 4 21
Philidelphia Vicintity
Chester 1
1 2
Deleware 2
1 2 4 4
Philadelphia 9
81 1 25 12
If I were a betting
person, I think our family roots run through
Philadelphia.
Joe
From: dave sherry
To: Michele Powell , JOSEPH MANLEY
CC: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: 1900 Manleys
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:47:35 -0700 (PDT)
Hi folks,
Heritage Quest just added the 1900 Ohio index. On the Manley list, I found Margaret and children (your family) and the Welshes. Images are attached. I could not find Edward's widow. West Virginia is not loaded yet.
Kathy Rothert should be finished with the birth and directory info soon for Ohio county. She found a Francis Manley (from Mayo) declaration of intent from 1856, way earlier than any other family member made to the area, but she did not find naturalization papers for Anthony or Patrick.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003
18:13:16 +0000
Thanks Dave. Great stuff.
Sorry I haven't responded earlier - I have been on business travel for a couple
of weeks and this is the first chance I had to read your message.
Sorry to seem dumb, but I
have forgotten who Patrick Welsh was? What is the connection?
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:18:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Patrick Welsh is the husband of Julia Manley of Bellaire, relationship to our families unknown.
Attached is the Kathy research (including other of my families) - Joyce is husband of Ann Manley
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003
22:59:42 +0000
O.K. - I am with you now.
New lead. This is great. I have printed a copy and will study further this eve.
One other thought on
Heritage Quest - I don't have access to that database. Would you mind having a look at the 1900
census for Worl, Whorl, Wirl ? That is Mike and my grandmothers side of the
family and we are still struggling with them.
From: dave sherry <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
To: JOSEPH MANLEY <jmanley_at_msn.com>, Michele Powell <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:27:01 -0700 (PDT)
Here they are.
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003
17:01:49 +0000
Thanks a lot Dave. This
confims something that Mike and I had been struggling with. It appears that
Glenn Moore was the son of Ida May (the census asks how many children some had
and how many are living). She would have been 15 when she gave birth and this
probably explains why the family disowned my Grandfather when he married her.
Joe
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003
18:29:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michele Powell"
<michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Francis
Manley naturalization
To: "dave
sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
CC: jmanley_at_msn.com
Thanks, Dave! I found this VERY interesting. I know you had mentioned bits and pieces of
this before, but to have it all in one complete document makes it much clearer
to me. Am I right in thinking that we
have no idea if Francis is a relative of anyone? Does he appear on any census records? I didn't see any for Francis on your website. I wonder how long he lived in Wheeling? He would be 42 in 1860--don't know if WV
census is indexed for that year. At
least we know a port of departure....but where is Bradhasen? I appreciate your sharing! ....Mike
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Francis Manley naturalization
To: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
CC: jmanley_at_msn.com
They are in the 1860 census in Marshall co., but I could not find them anywhere in 1870 or 1880. The only record easily accessible was daughter Bridget's birth in Ohio co. on June 17, 1854 (on familysearch.org).
I should probably add them to the site. I don't know Bradhasen either.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com> |
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003
05:25:56 +0000
Dave, had another thought
and wondered if you could do a couple of more favors for me. I have the
researcher in Benwood trying to track down more info on John T. Manley (have
not forgotten your offer to involve the Irish research opportunity on John T.
and his parents (James & Margaret). Anyway, I have all the census images on
John T. for 1910, 1920 and 1930. I wondered if you could try to find him on the
1900 census with Hertiage? I suspect he will be in Benwood, WV, but he could
still be in Bellair at that time. I think John Carroll died before 1900, but I
have nothing certain on that, so John T. could have still been living under his
roof - or it could be listed under Margaret Carroll/Manley but 1910 etc all
listed John T as the head of the household and Margaret living with him.
Secondly, I have been
trying to get a lead on where in Pennsylvania everyone lived when they first
arrived in U.S. Another lookup you could try on the 1900 census is Margaret
Ferguson. In the 1910-1930 census, she is living with John T. (listed as
servant, niece, cousin in the different years) but born in PA around 1890.
Anyway, I am thinking that James had brothers and sisters, one of whom married
a Ferguson. If you could find an 8-15 year old Margaret Ferguson in the 1900
census (with her parents in PA), then any Manleys in that town may be relatives
of ours. That town may also be where Bryan's widow and sons went to when they
left Bellaire.
I'll keep my fingers
crossed.
Joe
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:13:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
There are 800 Fergusons in Pennsylvania for the 1900 census. A father's and/or mother's name is therefore a necessity.
West Virginia has not been indexed yet. There seem to be monthly releases - last one Sept 25. I'll let you know when it is searchable.
I did send you the 1900 census for Margaret and family,
didn't I? Do you not know her
whereabouts after that?
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com> |
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003
17:46:19 +0000
Thanks for looking. Is
1900 indexed only by head of household? In other words, could you search by
name and age to find a Margaret who is between 8-15 years old? Another
complicating factor is the spelling of her name. In the various census
documents, it is spelled Furgeson or Ferguson with the latter appearing more
often.
Another possibility is to
look for James Manley, born in PA around 1888. He and his wife Rose were living
in the John T household during the 1920 census. He and his wife list PA as
place of birth with Irish born parents.
He would have been 10-13 years old in 1900 so maybe you could search on
age etc too.
Again, I am assuming the
search isn't restricted to head of household.
Joe
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:53:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com> |
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
HeritageQuest has merely head of household.
Only 1870 and 1930 ancestry and 1880 familysearch are
comprehensive.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 1900 Manleys
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003
17:53:12 +0000
Sorry, didn't completely
reply to your message. I got the 1900 census you sent. Thanks much. The family whereabouts after 1900 is a big
mystery that has confounded Mike and I. We can find no trace of them anywhere,
and have searched the 1910, 20 and 30 censuses. I am assuming that they are
living in someone else's household (so don't come up under the index), were all
killed in some accident, went back to Ireland, or the mother remarried and are
listed under the new name, or the mother died and the family split up. If you
think of any where else we could search or any other approach, please let me
know.
From: "Manley, Joseph
M (SPO)" <Joseph.Manley_at_med.va.gov
To:
"'davesherry_at_yahoo.com'" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Delivery
Status Notification (Failure)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003
15:05:46 -0700
One other idea re: the
Pennsylvania James Manley is that you could look for a 1900 Manley in PA who is
between 30 and 45 years of age to find James' father. I suspect there would no
be many. I am on travel today and tomorrow, so don't have access to my 1910
census for John T. When I do get back, I will check it to see where James said
his father was born (I assume Ireland, but it could be PA)
Anyway, it may be easier
to find his father using Heritage if you knew you were looking for a Manley,
age 30-45, born in Ireland with a young son James in the house.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Irish Research
Service
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003
18:14:26 +0000
Dave,
I was thinking of sending
the Irish Reseach Service (North) the following and requesting their 75 Euro
option:
John T. Manley born Feb 15, 1853. Son of James Manley (born
abt 1833) and Margaret Tighe Manley (born abt 1830). Margaret is the daughter
of Anthony and Mary Tighe. James and Margaret immigrated to U.S. in 1853 or
1854 leaving John T. in the care of a relative (assume Tighe) until John T.
immigrated to U.S. about 1864. John T.'s obiturary said he was from Drumm,
County Mayo.
Other likely relatives
living in U.S. include:
Peter Manley, (born 1820/21) and wife Mary O'Maley (born about
1825) and their son William who was born in Scotland in 1853. They immigrated
to U.S. abt ??
Bryan Manley (born about
1839/40) and wife Margaret O' Donnell (born abt 1848). Margaret is the daughter
of Mary O'Donnell and Mr. O'Donnell. Bryan immigrated to U.S. in Nov 1852.
Margaret and family immigrated in 1851.
What do you think Dave.
Should we include anything else? Are you still O.K. with splitting the cost?
Joe
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Irish Research Service
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
I'm definitely OK with splitting the cost.
I think you could perhaps frame it this way.
A number of Manleys settled in the Wheeling WV/Bellaire OH area in the 1860s and 1870s.
Listed below (or on attached family group sheets) are the families and some of the evidence suggesting connections among them. We would like to trace the families back to Mayo and to see if they are related. It probably makes the most sense to begin with John T. Manley as we have the most information about him. (Somehow we need to convey that the birthdate we have may not be exact - given the conflicting data about what year he was born.)
> John T. Manley born Feb 15, 1853. Son of James Manley (born abt 1833)
> and Margaret Tighe Manley (born abt 1830). Margaret
is the daughter of
> Anthony and Mary Tighe. James and Margaret immigrated to U.S. in 1853 or
> 1854 leaving John T. in the care of a relative (assume Tighe) until John T.
> immigrated to U.S. about 1864. John T.'s obiturary said he was from Drumm,
> County Mayo.
* 3 children of Peter were godparents to children of Bryan
* Anthony was godparent to one of Peter's children and the names of his 4 boys are all among the 7 of Peter's; Anthony's father was named Peter
* Peter was the naturalization witness for John T
* William was the informant for Anthony's death
* Patricks's first 3 children have the same names as Peter's first 3 children. (coincidence > just common names?)
I have not seen any connections to Edward yet, but do not have any of his children's baptism info.
I'm not sure how relevant immigration data as I don't believe they have passenger records there (unless they have also acquired the New York port information). Although it may help frame, possible wedding dates for those married in Ireland.
Peter's twin girls were born in Glovers Gap, WV in March 1855; I have a date for William's birth in Scotland of May 1852, but I'm not highly confident of it. Emigration from Ireland is probably late 1840s/early 1850s and immigration to America in the 1852-1854 range.
Kathy Rothert has delivered all the Ohio Co. Manley births. I just received a reply back from Marshall Co. yesterday saying they have no Manley births recorded from 1855 to 1933. In the next day or so I will proceed with the letter to the diocese. No guarantees anything turns up but the godparent relationships may provide firming evidence of family ties. Perhaps by some stroke of fortune something more helpful will turn up.
I'm not sure it necessarily makes sense to wait for that. What do you think?
Kathy found an early Manley - Frank - who naturalized around 1855 in Ohio Co. There is a daughter's birth about the same time and 1860 census record (Marshall Co.) but they are lost after that. Interestingly it appears he left as early as 1845 and immigrated through Quebec.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Irish
Research Service
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003
18:08:32 +0000
O.K. - Let me tinker with
the Irish web site a little and see what I can work out. I would prefer to set
up an email dialog with them so that we can convey/sort details as they have
questions etc.
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: the missing 1900 Manleys
To: "Joe Manley" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: "Michele Powell" <michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com>
HeritageQuest now has all the states for 1900 so here are the missing Manleys that I could find. It is interesting that Annie Manley's mother came over much later > 1874. Perhaps following her path would be productive.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: James Manley
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003
14:44:40 +0000
Mike/Dave,
Have had another thought
on new avenue to pursue. Where do you suppose James Manley died? I have been
assuming Bellaire, but now I am wonder if it was Clarksburg, WV.
In checking my records, I
see we have census data that the family was in Clarksburg in 1860. Margaret
married John Carroll in 1865 in Marshall County (where he lived). John T.
Manley allegedly immigrated to U.S. to Bellaire in 1864. I wonder now if James
died between 1860 and 1864 and the widow Margaret went to the only family she
had in America, the Manleys in Bellaire for help.
If this were possible, I
was planning to check out the Catholic church and cemetery in Clarksburg. What
do you guys think?
Joe
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: James Manley
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Joe,
Your thought that Margaret would seek to join up with family makes a lot of sense. The death certificate of Martin Manley, son of Peter, says he was born in Cameron, Marshall Co. in June 1864 so Margaret marrying in Marshall Co. in 1865 would work well with that theory.
Clarksburg is on a different, more southerly (to Parkersburg) branch of the B&O line that my Manleys migrated along (Glovers Gap-1855, Littleton-1860, Cameron-1864). I put a map of the B&O on my Manleys homepage, but Clarksburg falls below the bottom edge. You can see where the B&O forks though in the bottom right corner of the map.
A quick look at the Harrison county genweb site shows extensively listed deaths (except 1863) and
cemetery info. Neither Manley nor Manly yielded any relevant results in the search engine.
http://www.parishic.com/HISTORY.html
This is interesting but it looks like the parish might have been right around the time of James' death.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com, JMANLEY_at_email.msn.com
Subject: Irish Research
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003
17:40:39 +0000
Dave, what do you think
about this wording for the request? It was hard to incorporate our thinking
into their form/format. As I understand their web site, our $85 will buy their
research department conducting a preliminary search of all their sources for
records relating to the family. We get the results in a document that outlines
their process and indicates whether records were found. They will then offer us
a formal "Family History Report" for a couple of hundred dollars
(fancy bound kind of thing).
For a lesser price, they
now offer a "look up" service. Check their web site for details. I
wondered about this but thought the cost of looking for multiple names would be
charged seperately, so would add up to the same if we wanted them to look for
5-6 people.
Joe
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Irish Research
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
I think the wording is fine. A couple thoughts:
I would include Anthony Manley as he clearly seems tied with Peter's family. I'm less sure about Patrick, Annie, Edward and the others. Maybe they should be left out, but hopefully we'll know if there are any godparent ties soon depending on how quickly the Diocese gets to looking up the records.
I'd include all the names of John T.'s siblings on the form. The researchers look for patterns among family member names; that's why I'd err on the side of sending too much info (i.e family group sheets for all 4 families) while making sure they know the primary focus. If you need the family group sheets, I'm pretty sure I can print them out in PDF form (tonight perhaps) and forward them to you to submit along with the standard form.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Irish
Research
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003
18:26:09 +0000
O.K. understand. Would you
mind printing out the family group sheets - it would assure that we send them
the right stuff. I also have to admit how dumb I am, which Anthony are you
referring to?
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:40:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Irish Research
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
This is the page I use to keep them all straight.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_census_summary.htm
[Blue is Belmont Co.; yellow is Ohio Co., etc. See bottom]
I can either forward you the pdf files as attachments or print them and snailmail to you. I'll try the email approach first and if that doesn't work I'll mail them.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Irish
Research
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003
19:23:15 +0000
Dave, no need for further
action. I didn't realize that this was the sheet you were referring to. I have
copies of this saved on my computer and can print what I need.
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Irish Research
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
The group sheets I was referring to are actually something different. I'll still send them to you. They are a very standard report in any genealogy program.
One other random thought on the family ties front. Stonewalled on my Sherry line, I let my mind and browser wander along more exotic avenues, such as genetics. In my reading, I saw that there is someone doing a Manley DNA study (though no Sherry one yet - perhaps my calling some years out). I believe the technology would enable you to compare with other Manleys and prove relationship within a few hundred years. Not exactly like finding your lost cousins, but somewhat interesting. I think it costs $100-200 per person. As John T. (and his brother) left no heirs, that's a dead end. But there are male descendants of William, perhaps Anthony too (though I have not traced that as of yet) with which you could compare DNA and perhaps others in Ireland or other parts of the world.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Irish
Research
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003
19:45:43 +0000
Interesting idea. Will do
a little surfing to see if I can locate the study.
Back to Anthony, I am
assuming you are referring to 1845 Anthony who was married to Mary Kane. Any
idea where and when they got married?
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Irish Research
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Manley
This is the list I gave to the diocese, with the Anthony marriage on the top of the chrono list.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_ohio_county.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_ohio_county_chronological.htm
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: group sheets
1
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003
16:17:35 +0000
Dave, nice job on these. I
received both messages. Some of the dates you have listed on Bryan's and James'
conflicts with the data in my records. I wonder if you would mind making a
couple of changes.
On the James record, the
majority of dates I found for Margaret Tighe suggest she was older than James
and was born about 1830.
On the Bryan record,
multiple documents suggest he was born in 1839 or 1840. Margaret McDonnell was born in 1848.
I tried changing your pdf
files (system won't allow me) and wondered if you would change same and email
back to me. I have already been in touch with the research service and they
have agreed to accept and email order. So we are close to launching a whole new
avenue of exploration.
Joe
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: group sheets 1
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
I will make adjustments and send you the info ASAP, hopefully tonight. Multiple event listings may be the way to go.
Bryan's death record puts his birth as Jan 1842. I usually trust those more than census records because family members who generally provide obit and death certificate info would seem to be more accurate than census takers, but they are certainly not without flaws especially as the years go by.
Looking at Margaret Tighes record, it looks like I missed that her in asking Kathy to look up death records and obits.
The researchers hopefully know our sources are imprecise when it comes to dates so they need to adjust for this.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: group sheets
1
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003
17:42:19 +0000
I hear you. This stuff is
so complicated and variable. Here, for example, is where I got the Margaret
Tighe date:
Source
age DOB
1860 census 30 1830
1870 Census 38 1832
1880 census 54 1832
1910 census 80
1830
1866 marriage 36 1830
1920 cemetery 96 1824
I figured the marriage
license and earlier reporting might be more accurate as she would have less
reason to lie about her age on those.
I did the same sort of
thing with Bryan and even plotted the dates backward - so figure he was born
between July 21, 1839 and July 20, 1840.
Anyway, it is still a
guess as folks who can't read, write or have limited math skills, as many of
our ancestors did, would probably have a big error rate on this stuff.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: group sheets
1
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003
16:45:12 +0000
Dave,
No problem on updating the
sheets. I figured out a way to edit them and have submitted the request. Keep
your fingers crossed.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: family
History
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003
14:38:17 +0000
Dave, here is an interesting
reply. I wonder if the reference to Drumm caused him to focus on the south?
>From:
"normayo" <normayo_at_iol.ie>
>To: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
>Subject: Re: family
History
>Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003
11:29:59 +0100
>
>Dear Joseph
>I have forwarded your
email and attachments to our colleagues in South Mayo email soumayo_at_iol.ie. They will be in touch with you in due
course
>Mayo North
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: family History
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
That's interesting. Or maybe they did not find John T. up north.
I'm glad you were able to adjust the family group sheets. I'm a little under the weather this week so I did not have time to update the data.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: family
History
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003
16:50:52 +0000
>From:
"normayo" <normayo_at_iol.ie>
>To: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
>Subject: Re: family
History
>Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003
09:09:07 -0000
>
>Dear Joseph
>We carried out a
preliminary search of our database for reference to all
>your ancestors and
found none on our database. It is common practise for us
>to forward info to our
colleagues in South Mayo when we are unsuccessful in
>locating any
information, furthermore you did indicate a location of Drum
>which is in South
Mayo. I hope they have more success with your request.
>Best Wishes
>Bridie Greavy Research
Dept
>----- Original Message
-----
>From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
>To:
<normayo_at_iol.ie>
>Sent: Friday, October
24, 2003 8:42 PM
>Subject: Re: family
History
>
>
> > Thanks much. I
am a little curious about the decision to forward the request
> > to the south.
Can you tell me what caused you to decide that? I am asking
> > because my
family has often debated wether the family came from the north or
> > the south of
Mayo and couldn't figure it out.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY"
<jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: John
T.information
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003
15:38:37 +0000
Dave,
I was looking back on all
my notes and message traffic and noticed something I wanted to ask you a while
back. When we were exchanges messages about what to give the Irish Research
Service, one of the "links" between all the Manleys that you
mentioned was that Peter was the witness to John T.'s naturalization
application. Do you have a copy of that application? What does it list for
birth dates and place of birth and date entered country?
Joe
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: John T.information
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
From looking at this
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/manley_joe_emails.htm
and under Edit/Find with "naturalization" in the box, you can sort through our correspondence. It appears memory drift occurred with me, and it was not John T. but Edward where Peter was the witness. I don't know who was the witness for John.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: John
T.information
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003
18:38:46 +0000
Dave,
Got it. thanks.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com, jmanley_at_msn.com
Subject: Ireland Reserch Service
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003
10:33:55 -0800
O.K. Gang. I got a letter
back from the South Mayo Family History Centre. Here is what it said:
Dear Mr. Manley
Thank you for your
application of 19 October regarding your Manley and Tighe ancestors who hailed
from Drumm, Co. Mayo.
The surname Manley, in
addition to being a surname in its own right is also found here in Mayo as (a)
a variant spelling of Munnelly and (b) as an anglicisation of Farragher. - the
element "Farr" being phonetically similar to the Irish word for
"man". Tighe is found under the spelling Tighe and Tigue, with or
without the Mc prefix.
In searching for records
of your ancestors, the above variations have been taken into account.
There are four townlands
and one parish in County Mayo spelled Drum and none spelled Drumm. There are:
Drum townland in Bekan
parish where Roman Cahtolic records commenced in 1829, Drum townland in Kilmore
parish where Roman Catholic records commenced in 1859, Drum townland in Knock
parish where Roman Catholic records commenced in 1868 and Drum or Knockatemple
townland in Drum parish where Roman Catholic records commenced in 1839.
Searches eliminated Bekan
and Drum parishes. the almost complete absence of the surnames Kane Manley,
Farragher, O'Maley, O'Donnell and Tighe from records in the Knock parish area
indicates that your ancestors and the associated families who emigrated to Ohio
were not from that parish. The presence of these surnames (except Farragher) in
Kilmore and adjoining parishes suggests that the "Drumm" referred to
in John T. Manley's obituary is the townland and environs of Drum in Kilmore
parish.
Unfortunately, there are
no church or civil records for Kilmore parish before 1859. Civil records of
births, deaths and marriages did not commence until 1864 and all the 19th
century census returns have been destroyed.
I regret not having a more
positive reply to offer. We have not charged your credit card. Enclosed please
find a map showing the location of Kilmore parish.
Yours Sincerely,
Gerard m. Delaney
Centre Manager
O.K - so that is it. The
map is attached. I am not sure how the North and South Family Centres divide
their work or their files as Kilmore is about as far north as you can get in
Mayo. I am very grateful that they took the time and effort for us. If either of you would like a copy of the
actual letter for your files, I can mail a photocopy or e-mail a scanned copy
to you. Just let me know.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Manley Family
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003
16:48:46 -0800
Hey guys, I am getting a little
worried. Bought a new computer recently and changed over a lot of files. Don't
know if you received my message about info from the South Mayo Family Heritage
Center as have not seen response from you. Is my email account failing me or
did you get the message?
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:12:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Manley Family
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
I did - sorry I did not respond earlier. I've been away and busy.
That's unfortunate news from Ireland. I'll have to look back at my notes/our correspondence but it seems like there are few paths still to follow.
I did see something a few weeks ago where the gene testing people were giving the Manley group some special deal. If you contact my distant cousins and both get tested, I suppose there could be some proof of a link there and maybe find other connections.
I still have not heard from the Diocese of Wheeling about the info I requested from them. If that "hail Mary pass" bears fruit I'll be sure to let you know.
Have a merry Christmas
Dave
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Manley Family
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003
14:21:17 -0800
I have been thinking more.
The Belmullet connection was a little more help. If our ancestors did come from there, it would explain their
relatively late departure from Ireland (that area was less affected by the famine
as they had a fishing based industry. It might also explain Bryan being a stone
mason as that area is also known for it quarries.
To followup on Belmullet,
I noticed that the LDS records list you shared, Dave, has a film on
Kilmore/Belmullet for 1860-1881. I plan to order that to see what names look
familiar. I would expect Tighes etc. I also found an LDS record for Land
Valuation List for that area for 1856.
I also considered writing
to someone with our name who currently lives in Belmullet to see if their is
any family history, but this seems like a long shot. What do you guys think?
Apart from the above, I am
waiting for the 1860 census to be indexed (hoping to find out where Bryan etc
was at that time (hopefully with his parents); I have a woman in Benwood
looking through court records and newspapers to see if you can find anything
more on John T. and Margaret (although she is not as competent as Kathy
Rothert) and thought I might try that DNA thing Dave mentioned. Dave, can you
send me your email again (I bought a new computer and lost some stuff in the
conversion). Did you submit your DNA?
Does anyone have any other
suggestions or ideas
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:03:28 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Manley Family
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Joe,
Thanks for the background on Belmullet. It's likely relevant for my Gilboys and Devans as those names are only found in that part of Mayo. It couldn't hurt to write to someone there, but the chances of a direct hit are probably low. With roughly the same emigration time frame, I wrote 20 Fleckensteins and 20 Striebichs in Germany and got 2-3 responses for each name. Nothing direct came out of it, but it was a nice connection made to correspond with natives of the homelands.
I think the lines of potential investigation are petering out. I don't remember whether we searched for Margaret's obit. Records for the various children of Patrick, Anthony, etc. are another option but the likelihood of good information goes way down.
Here's the mailing list that deals with DNA and genealogy. It's pretty complicated and pretty interesting. The key test traces the changes in the Y chromosome through generations of men in a family, so it is good for the ancestry of your own surname but does nothing for all your other lines.
https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/legacy/other/Miscellaneous/GENEALOGY-DNA.html
Here are the sites relevant to the Manley DNA study.
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=P73998&special=True
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~chatsol/
I have not done anything with my DNA yet. Ultimately I would like to have mine tested, a half fourth cousin's (my closest/only Sherry line besides others descending from my grandfather) and then various Sherrys around Monaghan and Cavan counties to try to pin down where our roots lie. A grander project would include McSherry, Sharrys, McSharrys and perhaps even some Foleys (searraigh is the Irish word for foal; some supposedly anglicized it as Foley) to establish older connections. In order to get the Irish to do the test, I imagine an in-person appeal may be necessary as well as bearing the cost. (It's at least a good excuse to go to Ireland.)
My DNA would not be helpful to the Manley cause. Your best bet to establish a definitive family connection would be other "name" descendants of William Manley. If you haven't been in contact with any of them, I would be happy to introduce you.
Merry Christmas to you and your family.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
CC: michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Manley Family
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003
09:51:15 -0800
Yea, things are getting
tough. I am going to take a shot at the LDS records for Belmullet to see if
anything turns up (maybe John T.s grandparents - Anthony and Mary Tigue). I am
also waiting for the 1860 census. Bryan and Margaret arrived in the early 1850s
and turned up in Belmont for the 1870 census, so they were somewhere in 1860. I
am hoping that Margaret will be the key as she would have been 12 yrs old in
1860 and her mother (Mary) would have been 40. There can't be that many
McDonnell or McDonald matching those ages born in Ireland etc - so come on
Ancestry.com. I figure the Manleys and McDonnells must have been living near
one another, Bryan moved to Belmont and had Margaret join him. We know from the
citizenship records that he was there in 1866 and she was not.
Anyway, options are
narrowing, but can't give up the search.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Ohio
County Records
Date: Thu, 29 Jan
2004 07:52:02 -0800
For what it is
worth, I checked the Ohio County (Wheeling, WVA) naturalization records films
at the LDS church and found the following:
Francis Manly 1855
Peter Manly 1868
Anthony Manley 1868
Patrick Manly 1872
Michael J. Manly, Jr. 1888
Joe
Date: Thu, 29
Jan 2004 14:31:24 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
Any additional
info - witnesses, hometowns, etc?
Some
naturalization required a couple steps of documentation. I wonder if those are there
as well.
Hope all's well
Dave
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Ohio
County Records
Date: Thu, 29 Jan
2004 15:22:10 -0800
Have another film
in the series backordered. On the tape I got, only had supporting records for
part of the years. Additional records were limited to Peter and Patrick. Both
files were only the certificate the clerk fills out.
For Patrick, it
said native or Ireland and is dated August 19th, 1872.
For Peter, it said native of Ireland and is dated
August 5th, 1868.
Both guys signed
with a mark "x", so I am wondering about your ancestors as I had the
impression they could read and write.
Date: Fri, 30
Jan 2004 15:26:46 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
From what I
recall of the census, 1880 maybe, Peter could not read or write.
Any chance to
get a copy of the Peter image?
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: "dave
sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ohio
County Records
Date: Sat, 31 Jan
2004 15:32:52 -0800
Sure. I will email
a scanned image to you if you like (scanner is at work) , or can mail a photo
copy. I am away all next week, so can't do either till after the 6th. Which do
you prefer?
Date: Sat, 31
Jan 2004 22:43:29 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Either way is fine
- whichever is easier for you. Thanks
Date: Wed, 11
Feb 2004 10:19:24 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Joe,
Thanks again
for sending the naturalization images.
On the index
page, it looks there are columns for a couple/few different types of
document. I'd guess it's year, volume
and page for declarations of intent and then year, volume and page for
________?
It looks like
Anthony's document is the latter. Did
the index indicate what that might be?
Date: Wed, 11
Feb 2004 10:22:52 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Maybe it's the
petition.
http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/news/articles/230.asp
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Ohio
County Records
Date: Wed, 11 Feb
2004 15:20:54 -0800
Dave, here is how
the columns were annotated in the book.
Col 1 - Name
Col 2 - given name
(this col also has a year for some folks)
Col 3 & 4 -
the vol and page # from the "declarations Book"
Col 5 - year
Col 6 - the Vol
and Page from the "Land Order" Book
Date: Wed, 11
Feb 2004 15:40:31 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
Thanks. I wonder what the Land Order book is.
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Ohio
County Records
Date: Thu, 12 Feb
2004 14:58:39 -0800
Not sure - it is
not listed on any of the LDS microfilms. Speaking of which, I have been having
a look at the land valuation films for Belmullet area (film # 0857673) for
1855. All our relatives (except John T.) had left Ireland by then.
Anyway, I found
Anthony and Mary Tighe (might not be our Anthony and Mary, but then how often
would that exact name combination come up). They are listed in an area just outside
the main village of Belmullet in an area called "Corclough" in a
house near the "Carrigainfiddy Oyster Fishery".
All of the above
is in the parish of Kilcommon and Barony of Erris.
Joe
Date: Thu, 12
Feb 2004 15:26:35 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
The Tighe info
is pretty interesting. Were there many
other (Anthony) Tighes around and were there any Manleys in that area? I wonder if there are any Drum... named
townlands, etc. nearby. The next step might be to look at the Tithe info from
the 1820s to see if there are any recognizable names in that location. I don't think the info is as extensive as
the Griffiths but it could be helpful.
Date: Thu, 12
Feb 2004 16:07:16 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
http://www.multimap.com/wi/browse.cgi?X=-1117500&Y=7183750&width=700&height=400&client=public&gride=&gridn=&keepicon=false&coordsys=mercator&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&lang=&scale=100000
In looking at
my Manley map, it appears that Corclough (and Belmullet) would be in Kilmore
parish, though Kilcommon would be better for our research as the Kilmore
records start in 1860 and Kilcommon begins around 1840. Maybe Kilmore was carved out of Kilcommon
between those dates.
Film # 1279205
seems to be the one for Kilcommon and Kilmore.
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~fianna/county/mayo/mayrc.html
My map does not
show any Manley for either the Griffiths or Tithe data for Kilcommon or Kilmore
parishes (there are O'Malleys), but at
the time I gathered the data I was not looking at name variants so perhaps they
are there under a different spelling.
Date: Thu, 12
Feb 2004 17:01:34 -0800 (PST)
From:
"dave sherry" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Ohio County Records
To:
"JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
This is pretty
slick:
http://village.vossnet.co.uk/e/early/hnote5.html
There are 10
MONNELLY, 5 MUNNALLY, 2 MANNELLY, and 1 MENNELLY entries! (including
variations)
From: "JOSEPH
MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To:
davesherry_at_yahoo.com,
michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Ohio
County Records
Date: Fri, 13 Feb
2004 12:38:25 -0800
Incrediable site
Dave. You have done it again. I have got to get more modern in my search
techniques. I am nearly blind from sitting the dark staring at those old
fashion microfilm machines. You, on the other hand, find an electronic solution
that permits a much broader, more detailed analysis in seconds. Thanks for
sharing, I think this is great.
By the way, I
notice there are two Antony Tighes - one in Corclogh and the other in
Manraghrory. Have you ever found a map that shows where these are in Kilmore? I
found one that shows the villagte of Corclogh (on the same web site as the
index you shared) but I couldn't find the Manraghrory area.
Secondly, I notice
there are also McDonalds, O'Donnells and nearly all the other names we have
been looking for in the Kilmore listings.
Are there any
other members of the family that came to the U.S. after 1855 that we could look
for (other than John T.) ? I doubt
people traveled far to marry etc at that time, so we could be a little more
assured if there were a high statistical relationship among the family groups
etc.
As a last note, I
have sent off for the civil war records on a Bryan Manley who joined in
Wheeling. Maybe I will hit it lucky.
Joe
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: "DaveinSF" <davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:_Ireland_of_Other_Days_with_Francis_Dowling,_St._Patr icks_Day_Issue,_12_March_2004
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:24:04 -0800
Dave, thanks for letting me know about this special offer. I had a great time looking through the whole site. Key findings were on Anthony Tighe. It turns out that Griffins has a listing for Anthony Tighe in Kilmore parish in the village of Manraghrory. Guess what. Manraghrory is in the townland of Drum. This might be it, but we will never know for certain. Interesting though. If our ancestors did come from Kilmore, it would explain their late departure for America as Kilmore was less affected by the famine.
Anyway, thanks for putting onto this site. I got some great maps etc of Kilmore also.
Joe
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:52:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re:_Ireland_of_Other_Days_with_Francis_Dowling,_St._Patricks_Day_Issue,_12_March_2004
To: "JOSEPH MANLEY"
<jmanley_at_msn.com>
Hi Joe,
I'm glad you found the site useful. I tried to use it myself but the load was
making response so long I did not last for long. It appears to me that Manraghrory and Drum are both townlands in
Kilmore. Did you get any maps that
showed the townlands in Kilmore? Maybe
they are next to each other. Anything
else interesting enough to share?
thanks
Dave
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: Re:_Ireland_of_Other_Days_with_Francis_Dowling,_St._Patricks_Day_Issue,_12_March_2004
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:45:09 -0800
I found a map with both on it, but couldn't download a copy because it was in Java script. Attached is a map from my files that I can use to tell you where they are. If you look about half way down the Kilmore Peninsula, you will see on the right "Saleen Harbour". Southwest of this harbour is an area labeled An Greta. Further west is a label Mass Ville and even further west is Cross Point. The latter two encompassed an area called Drum and the An Greata area to the Harbour was label Manraghrory.
The great maps I thought I got turned out to be blank screens when I tried to view them later.
Didn't find anything else new. My efforts at locating the civil war record on Bryan came up empty also. The two Bryan Manleys they had listed didn't match our Bryan's birthdate/birthplace. I am out of leads at the moment. Will review files over the next couple of weeks to see if there is anywhere else to explore. Would welcome your thoughts/ideas.
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:20:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "dave sherry"
<davesherry_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Otherdays.com: Extension of Free
Access...
To: "Joe Manley" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
I see what you mean about the maps not being
downloadable. It's tough enough just to
view them with the limited box size and the poor zoom feature. At least this is giving me a chance to
look at potential hits for one of my
other families.
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Fwd: Otherdays.com: Extension of Free Access...
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:10:07 -0800
I didn't realize you had a subscription. Were you able to locate the map of Kilmore Parish that has Drum and Mangrahory written on it? If you want to order it, I would be happy to split the cost and we can make copies after word. I think I found an ordinance survey company that will take a modern map and draw both townlands on it for about $20-30. Would that help anything?
From: "JOSEPH MANLEY" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
To: davesherry_at_yahoo.com, michele_powell1957_at_yahoo.com
Subject: FW: Mayo County Council -- Beaches of Mayo
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:39:07 -0800
Dave/Mike,
This is kind of interesting. My best guess is that John T. Manley grew up in Binghamstown. Scroll down this website to the local history portion.
>From: "Manley, Joseph M (SPO)" <Joseph.Manley_at_med.va.gov>
>To: "'jmanley_at_msn.com'" <jmanley_at_msn.com>
>Subject: Mayo County Council -- Beaches of Mayo
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:23:29 -0800
>
> <<Mayo County Council -- Beaches of Mayo.url>>
>
>
>http://www.mayococo.ie/mcc3/Services/Leisure_Amenities/Beaches/ellybay.asp