Researching Strong(e)s and Strang(e)s in
Britain and Ireland; 2nd Edition |
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STRONG/STRONGE/STRANGE/STRANG/LeSTRANGE
& ARMSTRONG DNA RESULTS |
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This page has
several parts; please click on the part you wish to review: |
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B) The Most Common
Marker Values of Y-Chromosome Results by Haplogroups |
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C) Comparison with Strong examples: |
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D) Interpreting Results: |
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E) Grouping of Test Results: |
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F) Development of Findings based on Test Results: |
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G) End of Page |
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B)
The Most Common Marker Values of Y-Chromosome Results by Haplogroups |
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From:
Y-Chromosome Haplogroups |
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The
haplogroups HG1, HG2, HG3 are part of an older classification system that was
used when less was known about the human Y-chromosome tree. |
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From: |
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dgarvey/DNA/RelGen/YCC.html |
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"In
2002 the Y Chromosome Consortium (YCC) came out with a new classification
system to standardize the way haplogroups are named. In the |
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new system
the main branches are assigned letters - from A through R. HG1 and HG3 just
get new names - |
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HG1
is named as a sub-branch of the letter R known as "R1b", and |
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HG3
is in another sub-branch known as "R1a". |
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"The situation with HG2 is more complex. It turns out that
several very different branches of the human Y-chromosome tree had been
lumped together under the label "HG2". In Europe, the HG2s included
members of the F, G, I, and J branches." |
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" Haplogroup "I"
is found in Central and Eastern Europe, but also accounts for almost all the
HG2s in Northern Europe and the British Isles. |
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Haplogroup "I" is thought to stem from a group
(Gravettian culture) that arrived in Europe from the Middle East about 25,000
years ago. The |
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Gravettian culture was "known for its Venus figurines,
shell jewellery, and for using mammoth bones to build homes". See:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s211738.htm |
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" The other parts of HG2 -
Haplogroups F, G, and J - are more common in Southern and Eastern Europe.
They are believed to be the descendants of the Neolithic farmers from the
Middle East who were the first to practice agriculture in Europe about 8000
years ago." |
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From: |
The
Y-Chromosome Consortium: |
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http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu/nomenclature_system/frontpage.html |
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(See Tables 1 & 2) |
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Haplogroup J includes sub-clades, some of which may
be of varying ethnic origins such as "Krasnador/Adygean",
"Multan/Pakistani", "Jewish", etc. |
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(The old Cohen Modal
Haplogroup, HG9, is included within new YCC Haplogroup J). |
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DYS#s: |
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3 |
3 |
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3 |
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3 |
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4 |
4 |
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4 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
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Haplotypes |
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3 |
3 |
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3 |
8 |
8 |
4 |
3 |
4 |
8 |
3 |
8 |
4 |
5 |
5 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
6 |
6 |
6 |
6 |
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YCC |
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9 |
9 |
1 |
9 |
5 |
5 |
2 |
8 |
3 |
9 |
9 |
9 |
5 |
9 |
9 |
5 |
5 |
4 |
3 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
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Nomenclature |
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3 |
0 |
9 |
1 |
a |
b |
6 |
8 |
9 |
i |
2 |
ii |
8 |
a |
b |
5 |
4 |
7 |
7 |
8 |
9 |
a |
b |
c |
d |
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HG1 |
=> |
R1b |
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Anglo-Saxon-Germanic |
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13 |
24 |
14 |
11 |
11 |
14 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
13 |
13 |
29 |
17 |
9 |
10 |
11 |
11 |
25 |
15 |
19 |
29 |
16 |
16 |
18 |
18 |
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HG3 |
=> |
R1a |
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Norse-Russian |
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13 |
25 |
15 |
10 |
11 |
14 |
12 |
12 |
10 |
13 |
11 |
31 |
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HG2 |
=> |
I |
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Gravettian |
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13 |
23 |
15 |
10 |
14 |
14 |
11 |
14 |
11 |
12 |
11 |
28 |
15 |
8 |
9 |
11 |
11 |
23 |
16 |
20 |
29 |
13 |
15 |
16 |
17 |
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=> |
G |
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11 |
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=> |
F |
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11 |
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=> |
J |
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Middle Eastern |
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11 |
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Best Guess |
Roper data |
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HG9 |
=> |
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12 |
23 |
14 |
10 |
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11 |
16 |
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11 |
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9 |
9 |
11 |
11 |
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HG16 |
=> |
N3 |
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Siberian |
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14 |
23 |
15 |
11 |
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11 |
12 |
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14 |
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HG21 |
=> |
E3b |
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African |
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13 |
24 |
13 |
10 |
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11 |
12 |
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11 |
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HG26 |
=> |
K |
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13 |
23 |
13 |
10 |
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12 |
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12 |
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HG35 |
=> |
H |
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Punjabi > Gypsy |
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1) |
If
you have a value of "11" at DYS426 then you belong to haplogroup 2
(HG2). |
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2) |
If
you have a value of "12" at DYS426 and a value of "11" at
DYS392 then you are a member of HG3. |
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3) |
If
you have a value of "12" at DYS426 and DON'T have a value of
"11" at DYS392 then you belong to HG1. |
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4) |
If you have values of DYS426=11 and DYS388=12 then
you may belong to HG16 or HG21. |
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5) |
The following values for
the markers shown are apparently typical for the Haplogroups shown, per David
Roper, "" |
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Y-Chromosome Haplogroups |
http://www.roperld.com/HaplogroupFamilies.htm |
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Haplogroups |
19(394) |
388 |
390 |
391 |
392 |
393 |
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hg 9 |
14 |
16 |
23 |
10 |
11 |
12 |
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hg 16 |
15 |
12 |
23 |
11 |
14 |
14 |
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hg 21 |
13 |
12 |
24 |
10 |
11 |
13 |
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hg 26 |
13 |
12 |
23 |
10 |
12 |
13 |
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From: |
Y-Chromosome Markers
Families Comparisons |
by Dr. David L. Roper |
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http://www.roperld.com/ycomparison.htm |
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"One
can compare the medians for the paleolithic and neolithic groups: |
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393 |
390 |
19(394) |
391 |
385a |
385b |
426 |
388 |
439 |
389-1 |
392 |
(389-2)- |
458 |
459a |
459b |
455 |
454 |
447 |
437 |
448 |
449 |
464a |
464b |
464c |
464d |
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Marker |
(389-1) |
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Name |
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(prefix
DYS) |
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Paleolithic |
13 |
24 |
14 |
11 |
11 |
14 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
13 |
13 |
16 |
17 |
9 |
10 |
11 |
11 |
25 |
15 |
19 |
29 |
16 |
16 |
18 |
18 |
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Median |
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Neolithic |
13 |
23 |
15 |
10 |
14 |
15 |
11 |
14 |
11 |
12 |
11 |
16 |
15 |
8 |
9 |
9 |
11 |
24 |
16 |
20 |
29 |
13 |
15 |
16 |
16 |
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Median |
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Difference |
0 |
1 |
-1 |
1 |
-3 |
-1 |
1 |
-2 |
1 |
1 |
2 |
0 |
2 |
1 |
1 |
2 |
0 |
1 |
-1 |
-1 |
0 |
3 |
1 |
2 |
2 |
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"Note
that the two markers with the greatest difference are DYS385a (-3) and
DYS464a (+3). |
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"When
data for a new family becomes available, I use these two markers to decide if
a family belongs to paleolithic group 2. |
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"If a new family does not
fit in paleolithic group 2, then I calculate the relative mutations of all 25
marker for it with the several paleolithic and neolithic groups. |
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"Paleolithic
families are those that entered Western Europe, Britain and Ireland before
about 7000 ybp; those that entered later are called neolithic families. (The
neolithic age was in the approximate time interval of 7000-4000 ybp.) |
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76% of the
families are paleolithic. |
(ybp = years before the present) |
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There is a
very interesting article entitled "" |
Blood Groups and the history of
peoples", found at the following hyperlink: |
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http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/store3/template2/encyclopedia.html |
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There seems to be a link between the
blood group one belongs to and whether one is of paleolithic origins () |
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Blood Group "O", or
neolithic origins (Blood Groups A and B), while Group |
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Blood Group AB is of relatively
modern origins. |
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It may be that certain
Blood Groups are associated more with certain Haplogroups than with
others. W |
s. the degree of
correlation may yet remain to be determined. |
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The correlation between Blood Groups and
Haplotypes may also be a function of mtDNA rather than of the Y-Chromosome
DNA being studied here. |
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C)
Comparison with Strong examples: |
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Per
an analysis done by Stuart Baillie Strong, with a few
edits and additions by Dave Strong: |
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Lineages |
Kit |
Name |
See Notes |
Migration Pattern &
Sub-lineages |
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Haplotype |
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Steps
of Genetic Distance from HG Values in 25 Markers |
Steps of Genetic Distance from HG Values in 12 Markers |
# of
matches with Haplotype table |
Kit |
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HG1=R1b |
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See *** |
See*** |
Out of 12 |
% |
Out of 25 |
% |
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12 |
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25 |
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Norman? |
6491 |
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23 |
10 |
3 |
25% |
9 |
38% |
6491 |
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New England |
6811 |
Strong |
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Dorset> MA / EJ>John,Jr |
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HG1 |
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5 |
2 |
10 |
83% |
20 |
80% |
6811 |
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7257 |
Strong |
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MA> / EJ>Jedidiah |
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HG1 |
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5 |
2 |
10 |
83% |
20 |
80% |
7257 |
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SW England |
5858 |
Strong |
#3 |
OH>OK>TX |
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HG1 |
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5 |
2 |
10 |
83% |
20 |
80% |
5858 |
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6746 |
Strong |
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Hamps?, NFLD |
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HG1 |
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8 |
3 |
9 |
75% |
17 |
68% |
6746 |
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Shetland,
Scotland |
5825 |
Strong |
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SCT>ENG>BE |
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HG1 |
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9 |
2 |
10 |
83% |
16 |
64% |
5825 |
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8314 |
Strong |
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VA>TX /-John,Sr>John |
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HG1 |
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5 |
2 |
10 |
83% |
21 |
88% |
8314 |
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6809 |
Strong |
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VA>MD |
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HG1 |
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7 |
4 |
10 |
83% |
21 |
88% |
6663 |
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Southern |
5834 |
Strong |
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VA>TN /-John,Sr>William |
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HG1 |
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6 |
3 |
9 |
75% |
19 |
79% |
5834 |
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6663 |
Strong |
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VA>TN /-John,Sr>William |
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HG1 |
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6 |
2 |
10 |
83% |
19 |
79% |
6436 |
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6436 |
Strong |
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IN |
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HG1 |
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6 |
2 |
10 |
83% |
19 |
72% |
6809 |
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Norfolk |
7036 |
Strong |
#4 |
VA>MS>TX |
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HG1 |
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10 |
5 |
7 |
58% |
15 |
60% |
7036 |
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Irish |
7544 |
L'Estrange |
#5 |
IRE>AUST |
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HG1 |
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7 |
1 |
11 |
92% |
18 |
72% |
7544 |
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Scotland |
8881 |
Strange |
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SCT>ENG |
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HG1 |
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4 |
4 |
9 |
75% |
21 |
88% |
8881 |
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Pennsylvania |
6680 |
Strong |
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PA>MI |
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HG1 |
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8 |
3 |
8 |
75% |
17 |
68% |
6680 |
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Sligo |
6822 |
Strong |
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IRE |
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HG1 |
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12 |
3 |
9 |
75% |
13 |
52% |
6822 |
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Borders |
7548 |
Strong |
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SCT?
& ENG |
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HG1 |
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8 |
3 |
9 |
75% |
17 |
68% |
7548 |
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Monaghan |
8920 |
Strong |
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IRE>ON |
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HG1 |
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8 |
3 |
9 |
75% |
17 |
68% |
8920 |
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Ulster |
9014 |
Strong |
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IRE>ON>ND>CA |
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HG1 |
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8 |
3 |
9 |
75% |
17 |
68% |
9014 |
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Antrim, |
6256 |
Strong |
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IRE>NZ>AUST |
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HG1 |
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NA |
5 |
7 |
58% |
NA |
NA |
6256 |
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Down & |
6386 |
Strong |
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IRE>SC>IN>MS |
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HG1 |
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NA |
4 |
8 |
67% |
NA |
NA |
6386 |
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South
Carolina |
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Donegal & |
6643 |
Strong |
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IRE>PA |
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HG1 |
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12 |
5 |
7 |
58% |
13 |
52% |
6643 |
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Fermanagh |
5811 |
Strong |
#7 |
IRE>ON>BC>WA |
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HG1 |
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10 |
3 |
9 |
75% |
15 |
60% |
5811 |
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6761 |
Strong |
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IRE>ON>BC>ON |
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HG1 |
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11 |
4 |
8 |
67% |
14 |
56% |
6761 |
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8431 |
Strong |
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IRE>ON>AUST |
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HG1 |
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11 |
4 |
8 |
67% |
14 |
56% |
8431 |
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France |
6611 |
Strang |
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FR>NJ> |
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HG2=I |
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11 |
4 |
7 |
58% |
16 |
64% |
6611 |
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Norman ? |
6491 |
Strange |
#1,
#2 |
ENG>VA> |
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If HG2 |
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23 |
10 |
2 |
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2 |
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6491 |
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Norman ? |
6491 |
Strange |
#6 |
ENG>VA> |
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If J2 |
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UnKnown |
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6491 |
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"Half
of the men in HG1 will match with 19 [79%]or more of the values given in the
HG1 tables." |
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"The
members of HG1 are thought to be the descendants of the Paleolithic
hunter-gatherers who arrived in Europe before the last Ice Age about 40,000
years ago". |
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See: |
Aurignacian
Culture |
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"Half
of the men in HG2 will match with 15 [63%]or more of the values for
HG2." |
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"HG2 is most common in Southern and Central Europe, but
that haplogroup is also often seen in those of Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian
descent." |
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"The haplogroup HG3 is seen more frequently on the eastern
side of Europe (9% of the population of Turkey is HG3). But HG3 is also
common in Scandinavia, and is said by some to be indicative of Viking blood
when seen in paternal lines originating in the British Isles. The forefather
of all HG3's is thought to have been born in the Ukraine during the last Ice
Age about 15,000 years ago." |
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Results: |
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a)
Most, but not all, of the results for groups II, III, and IV |
SW England, Southern, & Scotland |
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matched at least 79% of the values given in
the HG1 tables. |
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b)
None of the results for groups V and VI matched at
least 79% of the values |
Donegal & Fermanagh,
and Antrim, Down, & SC matched 79% |
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of the values |
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given
in the HG1 tables. Perhaps this
indicates something common to them all. |
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c)
Neither of the two HG2 haplotypes matched 63% of the values for HG2. |
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d)
None of the results matched HG3, the so-called "Viking" Haplogroup. |
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This page has
several parts; please click on the part you wish to review: |
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B) The Most Common
Marker Values of Y-Chromosome Results by Haplogroups |
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C) Comparison with Strong examples: |
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D) Interpreting Results: |
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E) Grouping of Test Results: |
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F) Development of Findings based on Test Results: |
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G) End of Page |
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