Talk 'bout de past from de time I 'members till now, slave days and all? Dat not so hard. I knows what de past am, but what to come, dat am different. Dey says, 'Let de past be de guide for de future,' but if you don't know de future road, hows you gwine guide? I's sho' glad to tell you all I 'members, but dat am a long 'memberance. I know I's past 80, for sho'. and maybe more. 'cause I's old 'nough to 'member befo' de war starts. I 'members when de massa move to Texas by de ox team and dat am some trip! Dey loads de wagon till dere ain't no more room and den sticks we'uns in, and we walks some of de time, too. My massa am a preacherman and have jus' three slaves, me and pappy and mammy. She am cook and housekeeper and I helps her. Pappy am de field hand and de coachman and everything else what am needed. We have a nice, two-room log house to live in and it am better den what mos' slaves have, with de wood floor and real windows with glass in dem. Massa am good but he am strict. He don't have to say much when he wants you to do somethin'. Dere am no honey words round de house from him, but when him am preachin' in de church, him am different. He am honey man den. Massa could tell de right way in de church but it am hard for him to act it at home. He makes us go to church every Sunday. But I's tellin' you how we'uns come to Texas. De meals am cook by de campfire and after breakfast we starts and it am bump, bump, bump all day long. It am rocks and holes and mudholes, and it am streams and rivers to cross. We'uns cross one river, musta been de Mississippi, and drives on a big bridge and dey floats dat bridge right 'cross dat river. Massa and missus argues all de way to Texas. She am skeert mos' de time and he allus say de Lawd take care of us. He say, 'De Lawd am a-guidin' us.' She say, 'It am fools guidin' and a fool move for to start.' Dat de way dey talks all de way. And when we gits in de mudhole 'twas a argument 'gain. She say, 'Dis am some more of your Lawd's calls.' He say, 'Hush, hush, woman. Yous gittin' sac'ligious.' So we has to walk two mile for a man to git his yoke of oxen to pull us out dat mudhole, and when we out, massa say, 'Thank de Lawd.' And missus say, 'Thank de mens and de oxen.' Den one day we'uns camps under a big tree and when we'uns woke in de mornin' dere am worms and worms and worms. Millions of dem come off dat tree. Man, man, dat am a mess. Massa say dey army worms and missus say, 'Why for dey not in de army den?' After we been in Texas 'bout a year, missy Mary gits married to John Oldham . Missy Mary am massa's daughter. After dat I lives with her and Massa John and den hell start poppin' for die nigger. Missy Mary am good but Massa John an de devil. Dat man sho' am cruel, he works me to death and whups me for de leas' thing. My pappy say to me, 'You should 'come a runaway nigger.' He runs 'way hisself and dat de las' time we hears of him.  When surrender come I has to stay on with Massa Oldham . 'cause I has no place to go and I's too young to know how to do for myself. I stays 'bout till I's 16 year old and den I hunts some place to work and gits it in Jacksboro and stays dere sev'ral years. I quits when I gits married and dat 'bout nine year after de war end. I marries Dick Hines at Silver Creek and he am a farmer and a contrary man. He worked jus' as hard at his contrariness as him did at his farmin'. Mercy, how distressin' and worryment am life with dat nigger! I couldn't stand it no longer dan five year till I tooks my getaway.

De nex' year I marries Sam Walker what worked for cattlement here in Fort Worth and he died 'bout 20 year ago. Den 'twas 'bout 13 year ago I marries Jack Holman and he died in 1930. I's sho' try dis marrin' business but I ain't gwine try it no more, no, suh. "'Twixt all dem husbands and workin' for de white folks I gits 'long, but I's old and de last few years I can't work. Dey pays me $12.00 de month from de State and dat's what I lives on. Shucks, I's not worth nothin' no more. I jus' sets and sets and thinks of de old days and my mammy. All dat make me sad. I'll tell you one dem songs what 'spresses my feelin's 'sactly. "I's am climbin' Jacob's ladder, ladder, I's am climbin' Jacob's ladder, ladder, Soldier of de cross; O-h-h-h! Rise and shine, Give Gawd de glory, glory, glory, In de year of Jubiles. I wants to climb up Jacob's ladder, ladder, Jacob's ladder, till I gits in de new Jerusalem. Dat jus' how I feels."

Eliza Holman , 82, was born a slave to Rev. Mr. John Applewhite , who owned her parents and a small farm located near Clinton, Mississippi. Rev. Applewhite migrated in 1861, locating three miles west of Decatur in Wise Co., Tex., where he started another ministry. Eliza married three times after freedom. The first time to Dick Hines in 1874. They were separated in 1879. Her second marriage was to Sam Walker in 1880. He died in 1894. Her third marriage was in 1927, to Jack Holman and he died in 1930. She then worked as a domestic servant for three years, the Public Welfare Organization cared for her two years and then the State of Texas began sending her a $12.00, monthly pension in 1936. She now resides at 2507 Clinton Ave., N. Ft. Worth, Texas.

Talk 'bout de past f'om de time I's 'membahs 'til now, slave days an' all? Dat am not so hahd. I's know w'at de past am, but w'at to come, dat am diffe'nt. Dey says, "Let de past be de guide fo' de future", but if yous don't know de future road, how yous gwine to guide? I's sho glad to tell yous all I's 'membahs ob de past. Whew! Dat am a long 'membahence fo' a person widout edumacation. Now, let me see. I's past 80, fo' sho, an' m'ybe mo'. I's ol' 'nough to 'membahs befo' de wah stahts. De Marster moves an I's 'membahs dat well, 'cause I's 'bout six yeahs ol'. De place I's bo'n on am in good ol' Miss'ssip', neah Clinton. Marster Applewhite am my Marster. He am a preachahman an' owned a small fahm wid jus' three slaves, me an' my mammy an' pappy. My mammy am de cook an' housekeepah w'en I's got big 'nough, I's he'ped her. Pappy am de field hand, coachman, an' ever'thing else dat am needed to do 'roun' de place. Weuns had our own quatahs an' it am a two room, log cabin. F'om w'at de udder slaves say 'bout deys quatahs, weuns have a good place. Thar am a wood flooah, two windahs wid glass in dem an' ob co'se, weuns have de fiah place an' sich. Our treatment am lak weuns am some relation. De Marster am strict, but him am dat way wid ever'one on de place. I's can jus' see de Marster now. I's sho never fogits how him talk to his wife, his chilluns an' weuns. De Marster had three chilluns. De daughtah am Mary , de boys am John an' Albert . He stand up in f'ont ob yous an' says, "See heah, I's demand so an' so". He have his head back an' look yous straight in de face an' through yous. He don't have to says much. Ever'body jumps w'en he talks 'cause deys know him means w'at am saysed. Dere am no honey wo'ds 'roun' de house f'om him. W'en him am preachin' in de chu'ch, him am diffe'nt. He am honey man den. Yous know, it am easy to tell de true way, but it am hahd to act it. Dat am one ob de troubles wid de Marster. He could tell de truth in de chu'ch, but 'twas hahd fo' him to act it at home. Nobody gits de whuppin' f'om de Marster though. Him am lak de dawg bahk. "It am worst wid de bahk dan wid de bite. Sho, weuns go to de chu'ch. De Marster fo'ce weuns to go ever' Sunday.

Pappy drives de coach an' weuns sit wid pappy, up high in f'ont an' de Marster sit inside wid his fam'ly. De coach an' hosses am furnished to de Marster by his chu'ch membahs. It am sho't time befo' de wah dat weuns come to Texas. 'Twas by ox team an' dat am some trip. How long it took weuns? Now as I's says befo', its hahd fo' persons widout edumacation to have dat long mem'randum, but I's know 'tis a long time, Lawd's sake, yes! Deys load dat wagin 'til 'twarnt any mo' room an' den deys sticks weuns in dere. Weuns ride all day or weuns have to walk. Dat wagin warnt any spring cushion, No Sar!, an' de road am no pavements but dere am place wid plenty ob rocks to make pavement. Weuns cook de meals by de campfiah an' aftah breakfas', ever'day, weuns staht an' den it am bump, bump, bump, all day long. It am rocks an' holes an' some times mud holes, an' it am streams, creeks an' rivers to cross. Weuns cross one river, it musta been de Miss'sipp'. Anyway, weuns drive right on a big bridge. Shucks, dat bridge would hold a dozen yoke oxen an' deys float dat bridge 'cross de river. 'Twas a long way 'cross an' weuns all little skeert. I's hang on to mammy an' Mary hang on to Marster. Co'se, 'twas no dangah but it looked skittish. Weuns larnt aftahward dat crossin' rivers on de floatin' bridge am a fine way to cross rivers 'cause weuns come to a stream aftah a big freshet an' dere weuns was. De Marster talk to some mens dat live in de neighbahood. Dey tell de Marster dat it am a long time befo' him can cross by fordin' de stream an' so deys talk an' talk. Finally de Marster says to dem: Brother", him call all mens brother, "I's mus' git across". Dere am only one way to do it", dey says to him. W'at am dat?", asks de Marster. Dat am to float yous wagin 'cross", deys says, "Weuns have done dat befo' Brother, do dat fo' me. De Lawd's wo'k am a waitin' fo' me", de Marster says. Dem mens mus' believe in doin' to udders as yous wants udders do to yous. Dat am good believin', but it am bes' sometimes to be de fust to do de doin's.

 Well anyway, dem mens fix de float fo' de wagin. It am dis away: deys took two big logs an' fix dem side ob de wagin, den drives de wagin an' oxen into de stream. De oxen have to pull an' swim. Now, dat was something! Am weuns skeert? Well, dat aint it, weuns am plum goofed. Dat wagin am a floatin'. It swings dis way an' dat an' sometimes it tries to go ahead ob de oxen. De oxen am tryin' to save demse'ves an' deys wants to swim dis way an' dat way but dere am a man on a hoss, swimmin' ahead an' him have a long rope dat am tied to de oxen an' he guide dem. De Marster an' de Missy have de a'gument. Dat am one time de Missy sho talk back to de Marster. Dere weuns was a floatin' an' it looked lak de whole kaboodle am a gwine down de stream to de bottom. Ob co'se, 'twarnt any use to jump outter de wagin. Dem men may floated udder wagins 'cross but deys not gwine to git dis one over", de Missy says. Hush", de Marster says, "De Lawd am a guidin' us". Hush, nothin'! It am fools guidin' an' a fool move fo' to staht", she says. De Lawd called, an' I's obey de Lawd!", he answers. Twarnt de Lawd callin'! Him not call fo' to drown a man's fam'ly. It am de devil yous listen to", de Missy tol' him. Dat de way deys talk all de way 'cross. I's a cryin', mammy have de shakes an' I's guess de boys lost dere speech but weuns sho made it to de udder side or I's wouldn't be heah, would I's? De next day, weuns gits in de mudhole an' 'twas an a'gument 'twix de Marster an' de Missy 'gain. De boys, de Marster an' pappy am a wo'kin', mammy he'ps too. Deys pull, shove, push an' grunt but 'twarnt any use. Dem oxen wid all de he'p an' gruntin' couldn't pull dat wagin out. Dis am som mo' ob yous Lawd's call", de Missy says. Hush, Hush, womens. Yous gittin' sac'ligious", de Marster tol' her. "Weuns am in de bottom today, tomorrow weuns will be on high land an' den 'twill be some mo' mudholes". Weuns missed de bottom yesterday, crossin' de river", de Missy says, "Weuns jus' stuck heah". De Marster an' de Missy sho talkin' to each udder on dat trip. Anyway, Albert , he walk two miles fo' a man to come wid his yoke ob oxen an' hook onto weuns' yoke an' dat away, weuns gits out. Den weuns am happy once mo'. De Marster says, Thank de Lawd". Thank de mens an' de oxen", says Missy w'en deys pull us out. Weuns gits agwine once mo' an' fo' de Lawd's sake! If weuns aint stuck 'gain, 'side ob an houah. 'Twarnt any a'gument 'twix de Marster an' his wife dis time. She gits outter de wagin an' looks at him f'om de cornah ob her eye, sort ob 'gusted lak an' sits down on a log, side ob de road. Dere she sits, tappin' her foot an' hummin' a tune w'ile pretenden' she am happy an' 'tented. Dat's de way she should do all de time. W'y is it dat some people have de mean judgment 'gainst udder fo'ks? Ever'thing would be allright if all people's judgement 'gainst udder fo'ks was good. Wid dat second stuck, de mens an' my mammy wo'k wid pries an' deys cut timbah, put it undah de w'eel an' gits outter dat hole. Aftah de second stuck, weuns have no mo' trouble lak dat Ever'thing goes pretty good 'cept one day w'en weuns had traveled late an' it am dusk w'en weuns make de camp. Weuns camp undah a big tree 'cause it looked lak a fine place but in de mo'nin' w'en weuns woke, dere am wo'ms an' wo'ms an' mo' wo'ms. Millions ob dem come off dat tree. Deys jus' crawlin' 'roun'. Man!, Man!, but dat am a mess. De Marster says dat deys am ahmy wo'ms. W'en him says dey's ahmy wo'ms, de Missy says, "W'y fo' deys not in de ahmy den? W'at's dey doin' heah"? De Marster looks an' looks an' den says,  Twarnt any use fo' to try to git breakfas', 'cause dis myriad ob wo'ms wont 'lows us". I's often thought ob dat. I's think dat deys not only mai'ied but ever' couple have powe'ful large fam'ly.

Fo' de res' ob de way, ever'thing goes fine an' weuns finally comes to Wise County. De Marster settles neah Decatur, 'bout two miles west. De Marster stahts his preachin' an' 'twarnt 'til weuns am a doin' jus' lak in ol' Miss'sip'. Aftah weuns am dere 'bout a yeah, Missy Mary gits mai'ied to John Olham , an' am dat a weddin? All de chu'ch membahs come wid presents. De Marster preach de sermon at de cer'mony. De Missy fix me up in nice, new pretty dress an' de Marster gives me as de weddin' present to Missy Mary. Aftah dat, I's live wid Missy Mary an' Marster John, ob co'se. Den hell stahts poppin' fo' dis nigger. Missy Mary am good but Marster John am de devil. Dat man am sho cruel. He wo'ks me to death an' whups me fo' de least thing. W'y, dat man am so mean dat his own father says to me, "Yous should become a runawayer nigger. My pappy becomes a runawayer nigger. Yas Sar, one mo'nin' he comes up missin'. 'Twas de las' time any one ever' heahs ob him. I's skeert to become a runawayer nigger, so I's stay wid Marster John . W'y is it dat people am so diffe'nt? If all am lak, 'twould be awful I's guess. Sho would. Jus' think if all de womens wants de same man dat I's mai'ied. Dat would be a mess. W'en surrendah comes, I's have to stay on wid Marster Olham 'cause I's have no place to go. I's too young to go fo' myse'f. I's stayed 'til I's 'bout 16 yeahs ol', den I's hunt fo' some udder place to wo'k. I's git wo'k in Jacksboro an' stayed dere fo' sev'ral yeahs. I's quit dere w'en I's gits mai'ied. W'en do I's gits mai'ied? Lawd, Lawd, dat am yeahs ago. I's declare dat am long mem'randum fo' to ask f'om a person widout de edumacation. It am 'bout nine yeahs aftah de wah w'en I's fust mai'ied. I's mai'ied Dick Hines at Silvah Creek. He am a fahmah an' a contrary man. He wo'ked jus' as hahd at his contrariness as him did at fahmin'. Mercy! How distressin' an' worryment am life wid dat nigger. Well, I's couldn't stand it longah dan five yeahs 'til I's tooks my gitaway. A yeah aftah I's leave him, I's mai'ied Sam Walker . He wo'ked fo' cattlemen heah in Fort Worth. He died 20 yeahs ago. Den, 'twas 'bout 13 yeahs ago w'en I's mai'ied Jack Holman . He died in 1930. Aftah I's lose my las' husban', I's wo'k fo' w'ite fo'ks fo' sho't time but I's ol' an' fo' de las' few yeahs, I's can't wo'k. Deys pays me $12.00 de month f'om de State an' dat's w'at I's live on. Shucks! I's not wo'th anything any mo'. I's bettah off in Judgement dan jus' sattin' an' sattin' heah all day. Day aftah day, jus' thinkin'. I's think lots ob de ol' days an' my mammy an' ol' songs. All dat makes me sad. Do I's know any ol' songs? Shucks. I's use to know lots ob dem an' I's use to could sing too but I's can't do it any mo'. Yas, I's will tell yous de one dat I's lak bes' an' it 'spresses my feelin's 'zactly. I's will tell yous de wo'ds: I's am climbin' Jacob's laddah, laddah, I's am climbin' Jacob's laddah, laddah, Soldier ob de cross: O-h-h-h! Rise, shine, Give God de glory, glory, glory! in de yeah ob de Ju-bi-lee. I's want to climb up Jacob's laddah, laddah, Jacob's laddah 'til I's gits in de new Je-ru-sa-lem!  Marster, dat's jus' how I's feel.