Yes I was born a slave and so was Rosa . We got out of the chattel slavery and I was better off for gettin' out but Rosa don't think so. She says all we freed for is to starve to death. I guess she's right 'bout that, too, for herself. She says her whitefolks were good to her. But don't you expect me to love my whitefolks. I love them like a dog loves hickory. I was settin' here thinking the other night 'bout the talk of them kind of whitefolks going to Heaven. Lord God, they'd turn the Heaven wrong side out and have the angels working to make something they could take away from them. I can say these things now. I'd say them anywhere - in the courthouse - before the judges, before God. 'Cause they done done all to me that they can do. I'm done past everything but worryin' 'bout Rosa 'cause she don't get 'nuf to eat and 'cause she feel bad all the time. But they ain't no complainin' in her - (to Rosa ), Mama how you feel in the sun? Best to be expected this time o' year. I was born in Georgia on a farm. My mother's name was Lucindy . I heard other negroes say she was a good woman but she died when I was a little boy, not more than three or four. She left my little brother a crawlin' baby 'bout eleven months old. I can remember a little her dyin'. I can remember her rockin' me on the steps and singin', 'Lord revive us. All our help must come from Thee.' I can remember cryin' for my mama and bein' lonesome for her. They tried to tell me she was dead but I couldn't get it through my little head. My little brother was pitiful - plumb pitiful. There was one between me and the baby and all of us lonesome for our mama. I had a older brother and a older sister. My sister was so good. She wasn't nothing but a chap but she did what she could for us. Many times when she wasn't but nine years old I have held a pine torch for her to see how to wash our rags at night.

Then Judge Maddox's cook was a good woman. She was half sister to Judge Maddox and was a sister-in-law to my mama. For a long time she let the baby sleep with her in her bed. But my other brothers and sisters had to sleep on the floor in the cabin huddled together in cold weather so we wouldn't freeze to death. Our life was a misery. I hate the white man every time I think of being no more than animals. Judge Maddox moved into Buena Vista when I was real small. He had a big fine double run frame house covering a large piece of ground. We used to wait outside the kitchen door of the master's big house. The baby would crawl up by the door and wait with us. The cook would give us what she could. Sometimes she would give us a teaspoon of syrup and we would mix it with water to make something sweet. I used to crave sweet. Or we would eat a biscuit with fried meat grease on it. We used to be too hungry to give the baby his rightful share. We would get the chicken feet where they threw them out and roast them in the ashes and gnaw the bone. Judge Maddox had about fifty slaves as I remember when I was a little boy. Most of them stayed out on the farm and worked out there. My father was a blacksmith. He could make everything from a horseshoe nail to a gooseneck. He was sold to Judge Maddox from the Burkhalters . My father said the Burkhalters were mean as they come. He said that his master, Mr. Burkhalter , had gone to a war when he was a young man and stayed six months. He told me that there had always been wars and there would always be wars and rumors of wars as long as the world stands. Rosa never did know nothin' 'bout her father, eh mama? ( ROSA )That's right, I never did know nothing 'bout my paw but I looked on my mama like a savior. Her name was Hannah Clemon and Dr. Andrews my master had always owned her. Dr. Andrews was a good man and a good liver. He was from Mississippi but he moved to Union Parish, Louisana, when I was such a little girl I don't remember.My mama said that she remembered when Dr. Andrews came from Louisana to Mississippi and got married. He brought her along and told her to piece quilts. She said all the time she had to work in the house and piece quilts so much that she didn't have no time a'tall. But he moved back to Louisana.Dr. Andrews had 'bout twelve slaves. I had all the time to play until I was 'bout nine years old. We made rag dolls and played dolls. That was me and the other little niggers. I was the baby of my mama. She had eight chillun besides me. We used to play church. We would play singin' and prayin' and dyin'. Comes to me sometimes little play-game songs. We played somethin' we called 'Reglar, reglar, roll over.' We sing: Reglar, reglar All roll over Old cow died for want of cold water Reglar, reglar - All roll over. "Then 'nuther one was: Hat, old hat Looks like a crow's nest Settin' on a limb.

We had good little cabins. There was four of them settin' out in the yard. And we had cotton mattresses and blankets. We had 'nuf to eat too. They 'lowanced it out to us every two weeks. They'ud give us syrup, meal, flour and meat, potatoes and plenty of milk. The madam, that's Miss Fannie , Dr. Andrews ' wife, had a garden and she give us fresh greens and onions and things. The neighbors used to say, 'There goes Oat Andrews ' free niggers.' Thats cause he never hardly whipped them and give them rest and play time. He doctored us when we was sick and took good care of us. I sho' thought a heap o' Dr. Andrews . When I was nine or twelve or sech about I went into the house as a waiting and nurse girl. I had played with one of Miss Fannie's younger sisters and she had some more. They used to come and tease me and I was sassy. Everything I say they'd say, 'You done told that once.' Then they say they is going to tell Doctor on me and I don't want that. Miss Fannie used to thump me on the head with her thimble. If Doctor saw her he would say, 'Fannie don't hit Rosa . That ain't good for her - you might make her crazy.' One funny thing. When it was warm I'd wear shoes and then when it was cold I'd take them off. Doctor used to say, 'Rosa go put on your shoes, if it was hot you'd be wearing them.' The Andrews had two boys and a girl. The girl died and they was awful cut up about it. The boys were good boys. It always seemed they thought a heap of me. 'Course I thought a heap of them too. They was smart boys with book learnin' and schoolin'. But they better not kech any niggers with books. They say that was bad.

Now on Judge Maddox's place if a Nigger was caught with a book he got whipped like he was a thief. He had one man named Allen who went to work for a man whose boys taught him to read. When he came back to Judge Maddox's he would slip off into the woods on Sunday and read a paper or a book. I 'member he told me, 'It's a shame that a man couldn't read like he wanted to, cheap as paper is.' I know that after the war this Allen fellow went to Kansas. When I was about nine or ten years old, it was in 1853, Judge Maddox's family and the Blantons and the Wells and the widow Nutt 'lowed they would come to Texas. Judge Maddox sold off some of his slaves. He sold one man so he could stay with his wife that b'longed to another white man. But three men that I know came to Texas with Judge Maddox and left wives behind them. One I know never saw his wife again. A man didn't have the freedom of a dog in them days. It was a pretty good crowd came to Texas. Most of them rode in covered wagons but course us niggers walked. "Judge Maddox settled near Mount Enterprise and built him a good frame house and little double room log houses for the niggers. My first real hard work was gathering brush in the fields. Life was pretty hard. There was a cowhide to get you every time you turned your head out of time. They got us up for the fields before day. We used to go to the fields singin' - Chicama - chicama craney - crow Went to the well to wash my toe When I got back all my chickens was gone. It's one o'clock old witch. We had a overseer. He thought three o'clock the time to get up. Then there was a nigger man was a leader or driver. When they put me to work that ended my play days. But I got a little more to eat. But shoes, underwear, a bed, a hat was things I didn't know nothing 'bout 'til I was along sixteen years old. I used to see the little niggers playin' and I wanted to play too, but I'd have to tote water or somethin'. They played base, puss wants a corner and a game about a old hen fluttering 'round to keep the little chickens from the hawks. They say, 'Shoo, shoo.' They called it playing shoo shoo. What I always like when I used to play was William, William Tremble Toe. It goes:  William, William Tremble Toe He's a good fisherman. He catches hens Puts them in pens Some lay eggs Some lay none. Wire briar Limber lock Three geese in a flock One flew east One flew west One flew over the cuckoo's nest. But o-u-t spells out. So begone You dirty trout. You.

We learned some of them games from Judge Maddox's chilluns. He had eight of them. They were fair to middlin' good chilluns. I can remember them tryin' to comfort me sometimes when the old lady cut me with the cowhide she kept by her. We didn't see them enough to really get to know them though. Course we got to go to church in fair weather. They used to fix up a brush arbor in back of the white-folks meeting house and let the niggers set out there. The white preacher would preach along and then he'ud say, 'And you slaves out there, if you want to have the Kingdom Come you got to mind your masters, work hard and don't steal your master's chickens.' After I was a plumb old man I read in the papers that there was nine hundred preachers in the penitentiary and I said to myself, 'There ought to be nine hundred more there if they would just kech them all. Them preachers and their left-handed fellowship! Now me, I used to go to church. I used to ride on the horse behind Miss Fannie . I went and set in the whitefolks church. But later on I went to a colored church. I thought the singin' was just fine. I got religion when I was pretty little. I just remember that I felt the power of the Lord descend on me. But I was sinful for a long time. I kept on dancing and singin' reels and cotillion songs. But I ain't did that for a long time now. I wanted to do right but I guess I had a lot of devil in me. One reason I guess was cause the Andrew's were joyful folks. They just made me joyful. The niggers on the Andrew's place had clothes. The niggers was taught to sew and spin. They made knitted socks. Miss Fannie taught me how to knit and sew and spin. But she used to buy me good calico dresses and make them up for me. Shucks, I had good clothes as anybody. Maybe that was why I had lots of beaus. Well now Rosa , I believes you disremembers some of those good things. From what I seen I didn't see much of goodness. I seen speculators coming by with womens and chilluns as well as men. The older I got the more I found the taste of they whips with my back layed open. And I seen niggers put in the stocks. Jest 'cause when I got big nuf to go fishing I'd go and the old lady call me and take my fish away from me and I got tired of it and was hongry for fish. I cooked and ate them in the woods. They quit lettin' me go on Sunday. They put a chain 'round my legs and on my arms. Then they put a stick under my knees and chain me down by the hands to it. I was hobbled worse than a animal. One Sunday morning I had on chains and I was mad. The judge had called me early that morning to go to a neighbor's house and there was a heavy frost on the ground. My feet was sore and scabbed over and going on the frozen ground was worse than a misery but I had to go. Later on I was building a fire in the fireplace and I kept lettin' the chains clank against the brass firedogs. I knew he didn't like it. But I thought as how I didn't like going in the frost with my sore feet and I thought to give him a dose of something he don't like. I kept the chain clanking. He come in and got me and he beat me half to death. Then he put a iron band and chain 'round my neck and it choked me terrible.

Yes, I'm a whitefolks nigger. I loves them just like a dog loves a hickory switch. Seems like there was a lot of speculators got to coming through Texas. Judge Maddox was buying one every now and then. One day he brought home a pretty mulatto gal. She was real bright and she had long black straight hair and was dressed neat and good. The old lady come out of the house and took a look and said, 'What you bring that thing here for?' The Judge said, 'Honey, I brung her here for you. She going do your fine needle work.' She said, 'Fine needlework, your hind leg!' Well, you know what the old lady done? When Judge Maddox was away from home she got the scissors and cropped that gal's head to the skull. I didn't know no more 'bout that case. But one thing I do know was that white men got plenty chilluns by the nigger women. They didn't ask them. They just took them. I heard plenty 'bout that. Rosa will tell you the same. Wheee! Nobody needs to ask me. I can tell you that a white man laid a nigger gal whenever he wanted her. Seems like some of them had a plumb craving for the other color. Leastways they wanted to start themselves out on the nigger women. But our master was a good man. I never heard of him bothering any womens. I heard it from others. There was some redheaded neighbors of the Andrews had a whole crop of redheaded nigger slaves.  Judge Maddox bought a nigger man who had a three string fiddle. I used to hear him play and sing. We had to work at night too. When I was ten or eleven years old I had to plait hats out of rice straw and other straw. If we younguns didn't get as much done as we ought to they would beat us. But this nigger would play to us as we worked. He played and sang Cotton eyed Joe Hadn't been for cotton eyed Joe I'd been married seven year ago. He had a song for everything. His gettin' up song was: That old bald nigger With the shiny eyes He's too hard for me. This old way A gittin' up fore day It's too hard for me. When he was chopping wood or doing some hard work he would sing:
 Knock on the anvil See the fire roar. I'll tell old master When I go home How the fire go How the fire roar. His corn shucking song was: Sheep shear corn By the rattle of his horn Never seen the like Since I been born. His late in the afternoon song was: I met brother Michael in the Promised land I heard from Heaven today. Then we went to some neighbors for a corn shucking and they had some whiskey. The niggers sang All don't form a row shan't drink Come on all you niggers Stand in a row. All don't form a row shan't drink. It sounded right pretty. We used to sing songs too, on Dr. Andrew's place. But I can't never 'member the words. We used to sing songs and kinda imposed the words as we went. 'Christmas Time' was the name of a dance song. 'Christmas time, Christmas time, it's almost day.' That's all I can remember but it was a good dance song that we used to sing in the hugging up dances was a man lived neighbor to Judge Maddox named Asberry Stegall . He had a name for being a hard-handed man. If one of his niggers did something he didn't like he put them in a ring made of the other niggers. Then the nigger would have to run around inside the ring and let all the other niggers hit him with a stick. If a nigger wouldn't hit hard then he would get it himself. That way he made the niggers beat each other. Guess he thought that kep' his hands clean. That man had a old woman had three daughters named Liza , Laura , and Charlotte and he made everyone of them gals quit the men they were married to and marry other men that he liked. One of them had a boy fifteen and one eleven and one nine and he made her leave her man and take with another man. Then he had a old woman not under sixty year old and he made her marry a man 'bout twenty-four year old. He had 'nother girl who worked in the house for him and he married her off to a man she didn't have no taste for. That nigger would go to her to sleep with her and if she wouldn't do it then he would go to Mr. Stegall and he would whip her. Finally she had one child by him but she got many a beating first. Judge Maddox had three nigger boys run away to go to the free state all at one time. He got the dogs and trailed them and they caught them and it was a sorry day for them. About that time the war come along. I can remember those days very plain. One of Judge Maddox' s boys went away to fight. I used to see the men come by to talk it over about the war. When Judge Maddox's boys went they didn't have time to get new clothes. They just went and later on got their uniforms. I disremember if he had two boys go or just one. Seems like it was two and seems like it was one. I was sent with my brother to haul salt from Grand Saline, Texas, cause the folks in our parts couldn't get the salt for their vittles. Then I was sent with mules and more niggers to work on the government breastworks. I didn't see it but I sho' heard the battle of Vicksburg. And that was something to hear God knows. I wasn't so far away and I had been hauling and was taking mules back and forth. Then I was right close to the battle of Mansfield, Louisana. I heard it and I got there and seen the dead laying 'round on the ground. I saw people I knew. I saw J. Bagler, Frank Stamps , Ben Fuller , Jim Horrow , Will Horrow , he was just a little boy laying dead, and I saw Theodore and Orlando McFarlin . All these men were dead. I saw where J. Bagley was buried in the big trench that they dug. Later I helped his folks dig him up and take him home. I looked inside a tent when I was there and seen a man laying on a table turning green all over and his tongue hanging out big as my wrist and his eyes had popped out on his cheeks. That don't look so good. As I was going home I stopped by a Mrs. Anderson's place and she had a boy named Bob who was a deserter and was hiding at home. When I was there some confederate soldiers came by and told his maw to tell where Bob Anderson was. She said she didn't know 'cause she hadn't seen him. The leader man told her, 'You better go tell him that he will come out or we will burn him out.' She went into the house and told that unless he give himself up they going to burn her out. So he came out. They tied him with a rope and tied the other end to the saddle of one of the men. They went off with him trotting behind the horse. His maw sent me following along in the wagon. I followed thirteen miles. After a few miles I seen where he fell down and the drag signs on the groun'. Then when I come to Hornage Creek I seen they had gone through the water. I went across and after a while I found him. But you couldn't tell any of the front side of him. They had drug the face off him. I took him home. The soldiers had gone off some-where to the left. When I got to Tyler, Texas, I saw the Yankee prisoners they had took at Mansfield. They shut them up in the stock gates. In them stocks was Richard Burns and Jimmie Lock . I talked to Sallie Burns , Richard Burns ' sister in the streets. Later on when I joined with the Federals I seen them all agin 'cause they escaped out in wheel barrels covered up with shavings. I hadn't been at Judge Maddox's very long when he got mad and tied up my shirt over my head and beat me bloody raw.

I made up my mind to run away and join with the Federals. I told my brother just littler than me and in the night we slipped away and went towards the East. We walked and ate and slep' in the woods. One place we went into a blacksmith shop. We were awful hungry and wanted something to eat. The blacksmith asked us questions and told us to go home to our masters. We got so scared we ran out and I left my walking stick. I think we walked over a hundred miles. One night we were in the woods and I heard some men on horseback coming. I went to take a look on the road and I thought they was Federals. I went back to tell my brother. God knows why, but he got up and started running in the other way. I had to go and kech him. The fool ran a good half mile. After I caught him and talked to him we set out to kech up with the Federals. We came up to them the next day when they was resting. That was just above Monticello, Arkansas. They was the kindest folks I ever saw. They gave us some hardtack, something like a hard old cracker, some sowbelly and the first coffee I ever drank. They gave us blankets and let us rest. They let us lay right down by them. We didn't need no kiver-up 'cause I will remember that day long as I live. It was June 25. I stayed right 'round that bunch of Federals until December in the year 65. I seen the Federals heap corn in piles and burn it. Sure s'prised me to see folks burning good corn. I heard they did it all through lower Georgia. I went with them to San Antonio. I got arrested there. I guess I got to feeling so good I wanted to make noise. I made noise on the street with a bunch of wild boys and they took me up. I'm proud to say that was the first and last time. I went and slep' in the Alamo when I was in San Antonio. A man named Menger had a hotel in San Antonio gave me a job and a glass of lager beer. First time I ever seen any lager beer. My job was to haul beer down to the yankee camp at San Pedro Springs right by San Antonio. Beer.

There ain't no good in beer. He sounds like a drinker but he ain't never bought but two gallons of whiskey in his life and that wasn't for hisself. But we had war where I lived too. Dr. Andrews ' niggers went off to work on the government breastworks. I didn't know what the war was 'bout but I used to hear guns go off. But every gun goes boom boom. I didn't know who was killing who. But when the war was over Miss Fannie told me I was free but she didn't tell me to go away so I jest stayed and for a long time I didn't see no difference in anything. Dr. Andrews just went on doctoring people and folks say there goes Andrews' free niggers. I worked hard but I got along alright and I had good times and I had beaus. Rosa didn't see no life like I did. I guess she didn't see no trouble 'til she saw me but I'm going to get to that. The itching heel got a-hold on me and I started back to Arkansas on January sixth or seventh. I worked a while in a sawmill. I rafted for the sawmill. In '68 I went into Rusk County, Louisana, and worked for a man opening a new sawmill. In December of '69 I went to a party and that is where I met my wife. I had caught a little look at her before then and I liked what I saw. I sho' loved her the first time I ever saw her. She was a good dresser but not as fine a dresser as me. I had thought I loved a girl before then but I found out I didn't. I had studied 'bout asking that girl to marry me and when I found out later that she was the devil's half-sister I was proud I didn't. Rosa was doing all them cotillions with her dress spreading out and some of these hug-up dances. A fiddle band was playing. I know they was playing that song about 'Christmas Time, Christmas Time, almost day.' I started right out to court Rosa then but she told me I better go slow with her. The next year I married Rosa . We decided to buy a farm and make a place for ourselves. We made a payment down on a piece of uncleared land. We went into the woods and Rosa worked like a man. We sawed the trees and split the logs. Rosa cut shingles and together we roofed the house. We dug our own well and together we cleared the land and planted it. We had a baby after we was married 'bout ten months. I thought everything in the world was fine then. Rosa made all my clothes and knitted my socks and we was gettin' our place paid for and we was living tolable well. Everything went along for three years and then the man we bought the place from died. We found out the place didn't b'long to us. The children of the first wife of the man who sold us the land took it away from us. Then we went as tenants to a Louisana farmer. Every year I come out with nothing but owing that man money. After three years he and his son fell out. The son came to me and told me that his paw was beating me on the books. He told me I was a fool not to learn to read and write and know somethin' bout figgers. I told Rosa , 'I won't be going to bed so early these next nights.' That boy helped me and I got books and papers and every night by the fire I studied. When the time for the next agreement come I told the man that we'd keep double books. He and I would both keep books. At the end of the year he had me owing him money but my books showed he owed me nearly a hundred dollars. I told him figgers don't lie but the hand that made them sho' could. Well I never got the money but we parted our ways. I farmed and did different things. I had five boys and two girls. They were good chillun. All of them dead now but one boy and he is fifty-one year old. In 1892  I come to Dallas. I worked a lot of places. I worked for the Lingo Lumber Company for a long time. Rosa and I been like sweethearts all the time. She has been the best woman I could ever have. I never wanted to make no swaps. It's never been too dark, never too cold, never too bad for her to do for me. She was never too tired to set with me at night if I was sick. She was gone from me visiting the chilluns for two months once and that is the only time we ever been separated. I wrote to her every day. I have courted Rosa every since we been married. 'Course I ain't always been so virtuous. I have stepped out of the middle of the road. But Rosa didn't take on none. She always caught on to me and womens and got on to me 'bout it a little. I guess it's a man's nature to do with women and I guess they can't go agin their nature. But I always been good. I always been good and religious. But dada's been a right good man. He was good 'nuf to me. Well when we was pretty old we knew a woman had a baby. She treated that baby pitiful bad. She said he looked like he was a idiot. I remembered 'bout how miserable I was when I was a little boy and I said to Rosa if she was willing we would take him. She was willing and the mother give him to us when he was twenty-two months old. He was covered with sores but a little washing soon cleared it up and he's been with us every since like our boy. He is a smart nice boy. He is 'bout fifteen now. He knows all the names of the baseball players and the G. men. He knows how to read and gets his lessons fine. He plays baseball and marbles. He has thousands of marbles. I'm sho' proud of him to win the other chilluns marbles. I tol' him, 'If you don't grab for youself then nothin' going to help you.' Just like I tell all the newspaper men when they want to get me to tell them my story. I say, 'Anything in it for me?' They say not, and then I say, 'I will put on a cap, you can tie a chain 'round my neck and put a monkey jacket on me and I'll dance in the streets to a organ if there is any money in it for me. But not less there is.' This is the first time I ever told my story.