John Turnbull

BMDB data

     John Turnbull was born cir. Dec 1817 Hathwaite Gate, Par. of Nichol Forest, CUL, ENG, (place as Hathwat Gate).² He was christened on 24 Dec 1817 Nichol Forest, CUL, ENG; the entry showing that Robert and Eleanor were living at Hathwat (sic) Gate.²
     John Turnbull married Isabella Martin, daughter of Gilbert Martin, on 5 Dec 1844 St Cuthbert, Carlisle, CUL, ENG, cert shows that: John was a book keeper resid. Liverpool, s/o Robert Turnbull, joiner; Isabella was resid. Blackfriars St, d/o Gilbert Martin, builder; John and Isabella were both of full age and signed their names, married by license by Benjn Ward, wit: Thos Nanson (?Hanson) and Margaret Martin.^3,4,5,6
     John Turnbull died on 26 Jun 1885 Whiteclose Gate, nr Carlisle, CUL, ENG; his h/stone agreeing his age (67) but the St Cath's dth index showing him as 66.^1,7,8 He was buried with Isabella Turnbull at the Richardson St Cem., Carlisle, CUL, ENG, the h/stone reading: John Turnbull who died at Whiteclose Gate near Carlisle 26 Jun 1885 aged 67, late of Prospect Place, Stanwix. Also of Isabella his wife who died at Carleton Villa, Stanwix Nov 10th 1899 advanced in years and Ellen their daughter died at Cambrian Villa, Stanwix, Aug 10th 1903 and John their son who died at Cambrian Villa, Stanwix, Feb 21st 1913 aged 53; Burial index adds Ellen d 13.8.1903, Isabella 10.9.1899, John 26.6 1885, John 21.2.1913, Ellen's looking like a burial date instead.^1,8

Census/Where lived/Occupations

     In Dec 1844 John Turnbull was a book keeper Liverpool, LAN, ENG, when he married Isabella.³
     John Turnbull appeared on the census of 1851 2 Hartland Rd, Kentish Town, St Pancras, MDX, ENG, with Isabella Turnbull, enumerated as TURNBULL: John head, 30, rail clerk b Nicol Forest; wife Isabella 28 b Tedburgh (sic) (Jedburgh assumed); Dtrs: Eliza M 4; Ellen 3; Isabella 9mths all b St Pancras, MDX.⁹
     By Jul 1852 John Turnbull and Isabella Martin were living 1 Southampton Tce, Gospel Oak Fields, Kentish Town, St Pancras, MDX, ENG, when son Robert born, John being described as a railway clerk.¹⁰
     John and Isabella Turnbull appeared on the census of 1861 Newtown, Caldewgate, Carlisle, CUL, ENG, as TURNBULL: John head 38 railway clerk b SCT; (next page) wife Elizabeth (sic) 38 b SCT; Children: Margaret 14; Ellen 12; Elizabeth (sic) 10; Robert 8; (all scholars b MDX, London); John 5 b MDX; Christina 4 b Maryport, CUL (names don't quite gel with previous info: wife and 3rd dtr should be Isabellas instead of Elizabeths). It would also appear that Margaret, Ellen, Robert and Christina were enumerated twice in this census as they appear on their own at Kirkborough, Dearham in a household with no "Head" listed, the 4 children listed as son/dtr with the right birthplaces and ages, and a 55 yr old Lodger Robert Wilson, 55 schoolmaster b Carlisle; and, presumably his dtr, Mabel 8 b Liverpool, LAN.^11,12
     John Turnbull appeared on the census of 1871 25 Duke Str, Whitehaven, St Bees, CUL, ENG, enumerated as John Turnbull, lodger 53, married, travelling book seller b Arthuret, CUL (with Esther Pettigrew, unm, 38 and her sister Eliza Ann Castlebrow widowed 32, lodging house keepers b Whitehaven).¹³
     The census of 1881 showed John with his wife Isabella, their dtr Margaret in a Cottage, Rigg Village, Gretna, DFS, SCT, household enumerated as TURNBULL: John, 58, b England, traveller in books, wife Isabella, 56, b Jedburgh, ROX. Dtr Margaret Christina, 21, b ENG.¹⁴

All the other info

     Well, yet another of the Turnbull sons found. For the last 3 yrs Rose and I have been intermittantly corresponding to see if we could solve the mystery of her John's parentage. With children named Robert and Ellen and both a Carlisle and London connection, he "felt" to me that he should be the John, brother to my 2x greats, James, sons of Robert and Eleanor of Nichol Forest, Cumberland. Proof however was elusive, and Rose's John rather economical with the truth when it came to where and when he was born. The first known date/place (c 1818, Arthuret) was from his age at his dth in Carlisle, which was close enough to a Dec 1817 baptism in Nichol Forest. Subsequent census information proved both hard to find, and contradictory. He was eventually found in all census records 1851 to 1881, and these resulted in birth dates/places as varied as: c. 1823 England (1881 when he was in Scotland); c. 1823 Scotland (1861 census when he was in England); c. 1821 Nicol Forest (from 1851); and c 1818 again (1871 census). Combining all of these with his marriage cert, again eventually found, did indeed prove he was the son of Robert Turnbull, joiner.
Which id was subsequently confirmed when Bridget found and sent me the 1891 obit of James, published in the Carlisle Patriot, copying Huirangi (NZ) papers, and adding "Mr Turnbull was a native of Haithwaitegate near this city and brother of the late Mr John Turnbull of White Close Gate."^{13,7,4,15,11,9,14,3,16}