Update Titled, " Dave's Updates 12-29-99 #2 "
by David Hedgepeth, Dallas Texas - [email protected]
Subject: Dave's Updates 12-29-99 #2
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:05:38 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: Mailing list members
Reply to: Linda of KCMO on. [email protected] 12-27-99.
12-27-99
Linda,
Thank you for your comments. In several cases I need to clarify myself.
Here is how I will identify the following:
My previous comment ( [ ] )
Your last response ( R )
My new comment ( C )
R-1. I did not answer, if you had read my post to the list, I lost all
email and asked all to re post to me, if I had not answered.
C-1: Oops, sorry.
R-2: [Apparently some of the Courtney family that opposed the exhumation has documents of JLC that they will not allow Betty to see. ] "I cannot reply to material even Betty has not been privy to see."
C-2: I should have stated that better. My point is not that you should be
able to respond to the unknown, but rather, isn't it strange that family
members opposing Betty's claim to Jesse James, hides the evidence that
could prove her right or wrong? That is why some of her information is
limited. Usually when there is this kind of reluctance it is a cover-up
of the truth.
R-3: [With the Courtney name changes and the conflicting information in the documents it is hard to know for sure who is whom or what is right.]
"The only name changes, I am aware of were those of JLC parents and
siblings, and I seem to have had no problem finding them. JLC himself
seems to never have changed his name from JLC since my finding him in the
1860 census."
C-3: In 1870 Morris County, KS Census has JLC listed as James Haun.
R-4: [Betty's strongest point is that three professional facial photo
identification experts have confirmed that pictures of JLC matched the
historically accepted pictures of early Jesse James. ]
"I have not stated that the man in the photo that Betty had produced was
not JWJ… I am sure there are many photos still hanging around some dark
closets, trunks, etc ..."
C-4: Family for and against have identified the pictures in question as
James L. Courtney and his mother.
R-5: "While we are on topic of the photos of JLC and JWJ... here is one
for you. As we all have been told the ears are one of the main objects to
compare photos. Look at the two photos of JLC and JWJ and you will see
the ears are in same placement. BUT look at the photos of J:C at an older
age. His ears are larger and placed very LOW. :) I know we all have our
skin drop as we get older, but really now, look at the top and bottom of
those ears. Also in the younger photos Jesse had a receeding hairline
even by his thirties. In the older JLC photos did he get a transplant or
what?"
C-5: Experts have compared these photos, considered the aging, and they
said there is a match of JLC with JWJ. Also JLC did have a receding
hairline that shows as he ages. Keep in mind that traditional photos of
JWJ in later life may have been another person.
R-6: "BYW in the exhumation it was noted that the hair FROM the grave was
dyed. I was there as they took the glass and first fragments from the
grave, not more than a foot from Mr. Starrs. There was hair."
C-6: James Starrs was quoted to have said that he used the hair from the
James Farm Museum for testing and not the grave. With the whole Starrs
report in question, I would not put much confidence in his findings, even
if the hair came from his own head. (I do hope you eventually comment on
Mr. Horctor's letter.)
R-7: [Two other people who did not know Betty have confirmed Betty's
claim and have produced supporting pictures. ] "I do not know who these
people are, nor have I seen the photos, again not claiming the photos
they have are of JWJ."
C-7: The pictures and supporting information will be available in Betty's
upcoming book.
R-8: [Bill Wilkerson, a James Gang member visited JLC at his home. ]
"Where is it documented that Bill Wilkerson was there, or that it was the
same Wilkerson."
C-8: There is a good reason that this Bill Wilkerson is highly likely to
be a James Gang member. Bud Singleton, another known gang member, is also
mentioned as an associate in JLC's diary. Here is collaborating evidence.
What is the coincidence with all the other evidences that Bill and Bud
were not Gang members? If so, why would JLC be linked as such? You have
mentioned and I have thought that JLC at least may have been a gang
member. That would be my likely conclusion too, if the pictures did not
match.
R-9: "I do not understand the importance of any of these questions, nor
have you answered mine. Betty claims in her book that JLC
did not appear until after the 1870's, but I gave you the census for
1860where he was included with his parents."
C-9: Please re-read page 62 and you will find that Betty shows him on the
1860 Census in Johnson Co., MO, but not on the 1850 Census in Jefferson
Co., TN when JLC was 4. The 1850 Census is shown in Betty's book.
R-10: "You did not speak of my report to the fact that the Blevins
cemetery, where JLC is buried states his parents as Stephen and Dianah
Courtney."
C-10: " If Jesse used an assumed name, then the record would not show
Robert and Zerelda James as his parents.
R-11: [ … conclude that there were facial matches with JLC and JWJ… ]
"Again, I have not stated that the photo was not JWJ, as it may well be.
My claim is that the man who wrote that diary was not JWJ, as the
language et al, did not compare with what I have come to know of JWJ and
his demeanor."
C-11: If these photos are JWJ, then they are also JLC. You can't have one
without the other. Have you seen real letters written by Jesse James
before 1870? Probably not. John Newman Edwards, a journalist and Civil
War associate of Jesse and Frank, commonly wrote letters for Jesse James
and publicized his cause in a positive light.
R-12 "…One of my favorites (western movies), and I call most accurate
about the James-Youngers was, "The Long Riders."
C-12: Good tip. I would like to find and see it.
R-13: [ So what do you think about (the) Wood Hite (case)?]
"Well I believe it was Dick Liddel who killed Wood over Martha Bolton,
but that's another story.
C-13: Interesting. Love to hear it sometimes. There are different
accounts, which make all this so confusing. Phillip Steele and others
says Dick was involved in the shoot-out but Bob Ford shot him in the head
causing the fatal wound.
R-14: "Wood was dumped in a ditch full of snow and was decomposed when he
was found, as you stated. So, tell me, if Betty thinks it was Wood in the
grave how does he look so well in the photographs?
C-14: Good question. Betty has one idea about this and I have another
possible scenario. I will share both.
Betty said in her book on page 74 that there was probably just one body
involved. That was Wood Hite. The other body was never there. Strangely
enough Wood Hite's body was found "the very night an autopsy was being
performed on the purported head of Jesse James." Ironically the coroner
reported similar wounds to both bodies.
My feeling is that some poor unfortunate served as the other body. The
decomposition would have such an effect that it could have been Jack
Sprat and no one could tell the difference. It would be a great cover to
say the decomposed body was that of Wood Hite and the body seen in the
casket was Jesse James.
R-16: "I do not recall where he is buried, but his father was a quite
prominent man in Kentucky and I would assume he took care of it. I can
look into that. He was killed 4 Dec 1881, so that is four months to lay
in that ditch, btw."
C-16: I have never found a grave for him. I think the father would have
supplied a nice tombstone or at least a record of specifically where he
was buried. I will do a check in Logan Co., KY but I have contacted the
George Hite family association and they did not know.
R-17: [By the way, has an expert in facial recognition ever compared the
early Jesse James photos to the 1882 coffin pictures to confirm that
these were in fact the same people? Now that would be an interesting fact
to entertain.] "I do not know."
C-17: I do hope sometimes we can lay things on the line and let at least
two independent professionals in facial analysis examine the pictures and
give a report. Betty and/or the James Farm are not the ones to do this.
This requires an independent organization independently monitored to keep
any suspicions of non-objectivity out of the mix.
R-18: [Also is there a picture of Jesse and Zee together? I have not seen
one, which is odd, if none exist. But if so a comparison could be made
there too… Any takers? Now that would really give Betty a challenge,
especially if there were multiple experts confirming the photo
comparisons ] "While you are having all these photos compared, don't
forget those of JLC in the 1920's I believe they were."
(No specific answer was provided to address the Jesse and Zee pictures.)
C-18: I understand that all the years have been reviewed for the JLC
pictures.
Also, as far as I know, there are no pictures of Jesse and Zee together,
and there is no known marriage license. At the coroner's request Zee
could not give Jesse's age nor did she know which finger was missing. Not
only that but Zee refused to discuss the subject of JWJ (except for a few
times early on) and she died in poverty. Does this sound any bells for
anyone?
R-19: "I am interested in who JLC was, possible another member of the
gang? His real name seems to have been JLC but was it possible he was one
of the gang members using an alias, whose true identity has not been
confirmed?"
C-19: Possible, but how do you explain the photo matches?
C-20: "…I am sorry some of you are not enjoying this *chatter* on this
controversy, but this is the Jesse James forum and it is here we are
trying to determine just *whose* genealogy I have spent so much time
doing since 1993."
C-20: Thank you for that comment and I fully agree. In any case you
contribute a lot of valuable information. Thank you for discussing these
issues.
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Your comments, information and support would be greatly appreciated.
David Hedgpeth- E-mail: [email protected]
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David Hedgpeth
Dallas, TX
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