Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" , Savage Page 638
This page edited and hosted by Will Johnson, Professional Genealogist
Savage, pg 638
List Server
The tomb of John Savage (d. 1495) and Katherine Stanley as described (and photographed) in Raymond Richards's Old Cheshire Churches (1947) [pp. 209-210 and photograph plate 195] shows them with five sons and six daughters. The plethora of sons from other sources seem to indicate the possibility of illegitimate issue for the John Savage of that generation. Certainly his son and heir John Savage, K.G. (d. v.p. 1492) was known for his illegitimate issue [see Peter Leycester's Historical Antiquities... (1672), v. 2, p. 233]. So which of the known sons of the elder John Savage are represented on his and his wife's tomb? Obviously the eldest son and heir is represented by the one in spurs, kneeling in prayer. The son represented in ecclesiastical garb must be Thomas Savage (d. 1507), Archbishop of York. Until further evidence is provided the rest of the sons should probably be listed as uncertain in their legitimacy. The sixth and often-overlooked daughter would appear to be Dulcia Savage whose marriage was contracted in Oct. 1464 to Henry Bold of Bold, Lancashire [as per VCH Lancaster], and this provides those of the Eltonhead lineage with an improved royal descent from Edward I.
Contribution of Todd Whitesides
John Savage (d. 1495) of Macclesfield, lord of Clifton and Rushton Spencer, was at best a K.B. not a Garter knight. Also, describing him as of Clifton and Rocksavage is anachronistic. Rock Savage is the name of the mansion house built in 1565 near Runcorn by John Savage (d. 1597). Peter Leycester in Historical Antiquities... (1672), v. 2, Part 4, p. 229 (sub Clifton) states: "This Town, or Place (for here is onely a Mannor-Houfe, with the Demain-Lands thereof) hath its name from the Cliffs or broken Rocks therein. It is now at this day commonly called Rock-Savage, fince the ftructure of that fumptuous Building erected there by Sir John Savage, Anno Domini 1565. 7 Elizabethae. The old Hall ftood a little diftance thence, the Remains whereof are now turned into a Granary, Stable, and other Houfes of Office among the Out-houfes; and by the Servants at this day called by the name of The Old Hall."
On 6 Jan. 1568/9 John Savage declared his intention of enlarging Clifton Park [see Cheshire and Chester Archives and Local Studies Service ~ DCH/E/300]. The earliest contemporary reference I have come across to Rock Savage is in a lease dated 16 Jul. 1589 [see Cheshire and Chester Archives and Local Studies Service ~ DCH/E/113]. In his 2 Dec. 1597 will he described himself as "Sir John Savage of Rockesavage Kt." and requested burial at Macclesfield [see Cheshire and Chester Archives and Local Studies Service ~ DCH/E/310].
Contribution of Todd Whitesides 8 Sep 2005
Original Post
I have relied heavily on secondary sources for the chronology and vital
dates for the string of John Savages who were lords of Clifton in Bucklow
Hundred, Cheshire, especially on Peter Leycester's Historical Antiquities... (1672).
I believe an error that appeared in his account has been perpetuated in other secondary sources down the line. On page 231 of Vol. 2, Part 4, he stated that the third John Savage of his account died on "29 die Junii, 3 Edw. 4. 1463." The third regnal year of Edward IV began on 4 Mar. 1463/4, so the 29th of June of that regnal year would fall in 1464. This assessment is further supported by the fact that on 14 Feb. 1550/1 an inspeximus was conducted on the IPM of Sir John Savage (d. 1 Aug. 1450), Knt., which had originally been recorded at Chester on 2 Sep. 1450; and on the same date in 1550/1 the IPM of John Savage (d. 29 Jun. 1464), son of Sir John Savage, Kt., was inspected. His had originally been taken on 8 Aug. 1464 at Chester (see Cheshire and Chester Archives and Local Studies Service ~ DCH/E/297).
It appears that those interested in this family need to adjust his year of
death to 1464, if they have not done so already.
Contribution of Todd Whitesides 21 Sep 2005